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I Used to Be Homeless

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Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling me that if I was rich I would still have risked my freedom to steal food from the supermarket during the time when I was homeless and extremely sick and unable to work? And conversely, that I should have just starved instead of stealing food in order to maintain my moral standing? That is arguably an illogical position.

In America (my personal frame of reference) I could eat 7 meals a day as a homeless person. No one starves here if they go and look for food. I got food stamps the day I walked into the social services office. "Starving or stealing" in the US today is a straw man argument.

That's not a straw man. What you're thinking of is a false dichotomy. Not everyone is in the same position you were, and it's stupid to think that your experience is the baseline experience. Sounds like you were doing a lot better than others.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society decides the moral boundry, and currently stealing is immoral.

No. It's all about context. Thinking in such absolutes is a sign of low intelligence and empathy.

Then clarify your context, what crime is appropriate for homeless people and the poor to be arrested for?

I say it's the laws that currently exist, what do you say?

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America (my personal frame of reference) I could eat 7 meals a day as a homeless person. No one starves here if they go and look for food. I got food stamps the day I walked into the social services office. "Starving or stealing" in the US today is a straw man argument.

That's not a straw man. What you're thinking of is a false dichotomy. Not everyone is in the same position you were, and it's stupid to think that your experience is the baseline experience. Sounds like you were doing a lot better than others.

If you live in San Franscico there are a ton of places you can get food:

https://www.kqed.org/bayareabites/110356/where-homeless-peop...

Where do you live? I will likely be able to find food for you online. If not from a website, there will be a church, if not a church a social network that will get you food.

I've even seen people post on imgur.com and get sent pizza by people on the other side of the country.

If you need help getting food right now, post an email address here and I will find a way to get you food.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so on point. I can not stand how little the police does to address the entirely open air drug sales and use, indecent exposure, and plethora of public safety issues (shattered glass bottles, prostitution, trespassing, selling stolen goods like bicycles) because the perpetrators are homeless. I’m not saying punish homelessness, I’m saying enforce existing laws regardless of who the perps are.

In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.

That doesn't respond to the 'public safety issues' the GP was discussing.

Being on the streets is a spectrum of bad luck and bad choices. Yes, that means there are generally examples of people who are mostly one or mostly the other and plenty in between. Usually what happens is a few things go wrong at the same time from either category and life spirals out of control.

The problem is that it's hard to get people back on their feet again and the criminal justice system is quite terrible at it in general, but that doesn't mean that people never learning that there are consequences for their actions is a good thing, either.

Part of the problem is that various criminal societies have developed and need to be dismantled so as not to self-perpetuate the harm they cause to others.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's all about context. Thinking in such absolutes is a sign of low intelligence and empathy.

Then clarify your context, what crime is appropriate for homeless people and the poor to be arrested for? I say it's the laws that currently exist, what do you say?

What kind of question is that? It doesn't even make sense and I don't know what kind of answer you expect. Why do you continue to derail this conversation so hard?

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a straw man. What you're thinking of is a false dichotomy. Not everyone is in the same position you were, and it's stupid to think that your experience is the baseline experience. Sounds like you were doing a lot better than others.

If you live in San Franscico there are a ton of places you can get food: https://www.kqed.org/bayareabites/110356/where-homeless-peop... Where do you live? I will likely be able to find food for you online. If not from a website, there will be a church, if not a church a social network that will get you food. I've even seen people post on imgur.com and get sent pizza by people on the other side of the country. If you…

I've used plenty of those programs growing up in a poor family. It was never enough. And today, with budgets becoming ever tighter, it's less than ever. I work hard for the food on my table but it wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be here if I had never stolen food when I needed it most. But none of this has a damn thing to do with your straw man argument that I was saying being poor causes someone to commit crimes, and it has nothing to do with the drug war. I'm done talking with you because you're just playing devils advocate and derailing the conversation.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously I am saying neither of those things, because I am speaking in generalities (as they apply in the US) and have no knowledge of you in particular.

That's exactly my point. Your absolutisms and generalities discriminate against many individuals.

If the generalizations I am making are an inaccurate reflection of the reality of poverty and crime, then please enlighten me.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ..a percentage of those in poverty to be considered criminals. Specifically, the drug war. I knew tons of people that did drugs on the streets (most of them) and none of them went to jail accept those that committed crimes while doing drugs. Is there statistics somewhere that shows "x number of people are in jail for inhaling while minding their own business"? The police are always around on the streets, they don't…

I got in a car accident, and it turns out the driver had a tiny crumb of marijuana in a booksack, and I got six months jail time for it because the judge was incredibly corrupt and complicit with how the system works. I watched someone else who got caught trespassing and hunting without tags, caught with several grams of marijuana, his second possession arrest, only get a few hours of community service because he was…

My experiences are LA, Portland, Tampa, Key west, Phoenix, Tempe, Tuscon and a lot of other places where I was homeless.

I didn't get into fights, I didn't argue with the police when they told us to move or leave an area, I was respectful and decent. While people right next to us caused problems and got arrested.

So, I have seen plenty of police action, and rarely was it undeserved.

I think people who don't want to take responsibility for their actions are blind to the effects they have on others and simply can't see how their actions are scary for police to deal with and feel entitled to be belligerent.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#309
post #129

I was homeless in Silicon Valley many years ago. There were a lot of ‘us’. We stayed hidden in the woods, bathed often, and dressed impeccably in public. Some had jobs. Some were grad students. Several couples. There were no drugs, alcohol, beggars, or thieves out there. $5/day was enough. It was hard physically, but very spiritual, financially free, and altogether one of the best times of my life. Today it’s too dan…

That sounds like a nice hippy colony you had there. My experience was different.

Winter kills people. Summer kills people. Have your shelter from the elements planned, or you wont make it. The Homeless Shelter doesnt have the resources to help you all day. And they only let everyone sleep on the floor for the coldest 3 months of the year, when Christmas donations make feeding everyone ONE meal possible. When that runs out, or by county statute, you're on your own.

There's always someone that keeps the light-sleepers awake during those months. There's always someone bringing a virus in to that shelter. And there's always the one who needs to get voted off the island for everyone's safety - and sometimes he gets to stay, which keeps everyone awake except the security officer. Sometimes there's even the person who should be in a nursing home, but cant afford it and will defacate on theirself, and let it run down the floor. They can't help it, and we only get tapwater to clean it with.

So you make other arrangements where you can. If you had your wits about you and enough resources, you could get by on a daily basis. Those "criminals" were just fellows looking for their next meal, same as me. I didnt bother them except as a "heads up," and they returned the favor in both ways.

Same with cops - who, after enough analysis from this perspective became just another gang. The "heads up" I gave them were just of a different sort - fast food menus or coffee are things you'll have in common. Always have "normal" conversation ready for cops that isnt snitching - running & hiding only makes them chase, and you're going to have to walk near / with one eventually.

Always smile and wave to the cop. I dont care if you have a kilo of coke in a trojan condom up your ass, wave to make the man with a gun think you're friendly when he simply drives past and ignores you. You want to be human but forgettable.

And that's just the lay of the land - you better know them - cops, gangs, geography; be friendly rather than a nuisance around their turf. Even the hardest of them usually appreciates some manner reciprocity and a genuine nature from the lowest among us.

Then again, I didnt have access to suits. So I looked homeless, even with as much of a job as I could keep. All my money went out the moment it came in - ITS DECEPTIVELY EXPENSIVE TO BE HOMELESS SAFELY.

In order to not get picked up by the cops, I needed to move around A LOT.

Friends - fellow "travellers" and otherwise make survival possible. Need a ride to get out of dodge? Need folk medicine to survive, need a meal? Better share, so you can be shared-with. And you usually dont wanna be known as homeless, just a "slob".

At the same time most of those fellows in the same situation are going to be drains on your resources, not worthwhile investments of your time. Do you wanna eat, or just stare at someone else who's hungry until you punch each other? But you need to know that guy's name, have him like you enough to not try to steal from you.

Need to see a doctor? Need a dentist, a shower, a hot meal that isnt convenience food or similar junk food served by a soup kitchen? You better have a job that makes these possible - if not, you're screwed. And thats rarely a ticket out to a liveable life.

So every motherfucker has their lotto-ticket dream that they know is gonna work out. Emotionally, this keeps them alive. It doesnt matter what it is, or if its realistic. They're not gonna take "no" for an answer if they can help it, regarding that. This is how people fucking snap - they run out of ideas they think they can work.

Or worse - they settle in, and accept their lives as the perpetually ignored. They can last for 30 years, but they usually dont make it through the next winter.

Even cheap folk medicine became a terrible expense, and neglected health problems become untenable. This is what gets us all, eventually. And then someone steps in to help if you're lucky and young, after usually irreparable damage is done, and what's fixable costs a fortune.

Local "assistance" agencies requiring folks to be homeless for a Full Year to qualify for any help made it worse. But then, requirements that folks have their last address within that county, and not leave the county to seek opportunities elsewhere? Just makes it worse.

You get three hots and a cot - after trying and failing for a full year, tied down to the place you keep failing in. That year of failure breaks most people in some way.

No, not everyone is entirely out of options. But so many of us kid ourselves - we turn it into a "choice," when it was really just the only way to escape an even worse situation of similar poverty - that was my story.

I had kept the same job for years before, and through my time on the streets. It was the hardest time there, feeling ashamed around those people about my... "lifestyle". Its still painful to look back and see how I just... Changed.

Dont get me wrong - I kinda miss parts of it. Getting off work and being free to play and code, to wander, to learn whats around me in a new spot to explore. The stargazing simple dates, and

But hey. Tell me more about your bougie homelessness.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then clarify your context, what crime is appropriate for homeless people and the poor to be arrested for? I say it's the laws that currently exist, what do you say?

What kind of question is that? It doesn't even make sense and I don't know what kind of answer you expect. Why do you continue to derail this conversation so hard?

I was discussing this point:

>"It's discriminatory [law] against the poor, not the homeless"

I think it's fair to express how my experience is evidence that this is not a universal truth and there is room to challenge it.

Threads naturally change topics as they grow.

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