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Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

reuters.com

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Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#31

Post by Tsubasachan »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #11
zhte415 wrote: post #10

"Yes we can so this", technically, facial recognition is now there. "Why are we doing this?" Singapore is an already incredibly safe place with pride in the effectiveness of the rule of law. The screenshot, as captioned: > SenseTime surveillance software identifying details about people and vehicles runs as a demonstration at the company's office in Beijing, China, October 11, 2017. REUTERS/Thomas Peter/File Photo Im…

>Should a European citizen visit Singapore, would this be GDPR compliant? I’m sure Singapore doesn’t care. The truth about Singapore is that it pretty much is a police state, which has pretty extensive restrictions on individual freedoms. But... they do actually deliver on the supposed benefits of organising a society in that manner. Singapore is safe, clean and orderly. I wouldn’t say that’s the best way to run a co…

Indeed. Most people just want to live in a safe country and have a stable income. There is a reason why politicians care about crime statistics.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#32

Post by paganel »

icebraining wrote: post #26
philliphaydon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many openly gay people in Singapore. I'm glad weed is banned, as is every other drug. Malay people are not stigmatized in Singapore. I would quite literally live in any Asian country before choosing any Western country. But hey, each to their own right?

banned, as is every other drug Alcohol and tobacco are banned in Singapore?!

Hope they haven’t banned coffee, also.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#33

Post by odessacubbage »

dmos62 wrote: post #27
sveme wrote: post #18

Someone that does not want to be tracked by facial or gait recognition, either because he's a criminal or a political activist, will always be able to do that. There might be a race between the recognition software and the circumvention technology, but a dedicated individual will always be able to avoid that. Normal people without any criminal, terrorist or activist intentions will be victims of this massive surveill…

> Someone that does not want to be tracked by facial or gait recognition, either because he's a criminal or a political activist, will always be able to do that I wouldn't be so sure. How well can you control your stance or manner of walking for example? Someone (human) trained to differentiate authors of handwritten text can often still do so even if an author is actively trying to write differently. I think ML is g…

a wheelchair seems like an easy bypass, albeit one with very specific use.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#34

Post by sveme »

dmos62 wrote: post #27
sveme wrote: post #18

Someone that does not want to be tracked by facial or gait recognition, either because he's a criminal or a political activist, will always be able to do that. There might be a race between the recognition software and the circumvention technology, but a dedicated individual will always be able to avoid that. Normal people without any criminal, terrorist or activist intentions will be victims of this massive surveill…

> Someone that does not want to be tracked by facial or gait recognition, either because he's a criminal or a political activist, will always be able to do that I wouldn't be so sure. How well can you control your stance or manner of walking for example? Someone (human) trained to differentiate authors of handwritten text can often still do so even if an author is actively trying to write differently. I think ML is g…

Admittedly haven't explored this myself, but I would expect some insert in my shoes to significantly alter my gait. When I received orthopedic soles, these changed my whole stance and gait. Heck, if there's some twist in my socks, my stance and gait are changed as well. Curious to learn more how well gait recognition algorithms can remove these effects from their prediction.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#36

Post by F_r_k »

dmos62 wrote: post #27
sveme wrote: post #18

Someone that does not want to be tracked by facial or gait recognition, either because he's a criminal or a political activist, will always be able to do that. There might be a race between the recognition software and the circumvention technology, but a dedicated individual will always be able to avoid that. Normal people without any criminal, terrorist or activist intentions will be victims of this massive surveill…

> Someone that does not want to be tracked by facial or gait recognition, either because he's a criminal or a political activist, will always be able to do that I wouldn't be so sure. How well can you control your stance or manner of walking for example? Someone (human) trained to differentiate authors of handwritten text can often still do so even if an author is actively trying to write differently. I think ML is g…

> how to control your stance or manner

Quite "easy". Put a pebble in your shoe, or some scotch tape on your skin. You'll behave differently

> Someone (human) trained to differentiate authors of handwritten text can often still do so even if an author is actively trying to write differently.

That was never proven. Please cite a (good) source or I'll take it to be false

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#37

Post by mikejb »

goatsi wrote: post #23
Zarath wrote: post #15

Worst part is, you can't just go and destroy them because they will know who did it.

Wear a mask?

Depending on coverage, this might not be enough. People with masks can be tracked as well. E.g.: At some point, persons A, B and C enter an area without surveillance; Person B and C come out, A remains unseen but new person X comes out, wearing a mask. Even if they all don't leave during the period when X is out destroying government property, the problem is reduced from finding the needle in a haystack to identifying a ~1.75m lean person with a brisk walk, blue Sneakers and specific political views out of a relatively small set of individuals.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#38

Post by matthewmacleod »

philliphaydon wrote: post #19
anoncoward111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet crime still does occur, and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency. And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay. I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper.

There are many openly gay people in Singapore. I'm glad weed is banned, as is every other drug. Malay people are not stigmatized in Singapore. I would quite literally live in any Asian country before choosing any Western country. But hey, each to their own right?

On the other hand, same-sex sexual activity is literally illegal in Singapore. That’s not something that I think I am willing to adopt a “difference of opinion” view on - it’s objectively offensive to my moral system, and supporting that idea is not acceptable to me.

There is too much “whataboutism” going on here. Criticism of Singapore’s pseudo-police-state doesn’t mean that the US doesn’t have a crippling racism problem, or that the UK’s surveillance state is okay.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#39

Post by Kaveren »

philliphaydon wrote: post #19
anoncoward111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet crime still does occur, and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency. And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay. I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper.

There are many openly gay people in Singapore. I'm glad weed is banned, as is every other drug. Malay people are not stigmatized in Singapore. I would quite literally live in any Asian country before choosing any Western country. But hey, each to their own right?

Alcohol and caffeine both appear to be legal in Singapore. Perhaps we should criminalize it and sentence anyone who uses both of those to prison time. They're drugs, after all!

Or we could recognize people's personal freedoms and understand that sacrificing them to achieve a dystopic police state is not worth it.

I vehemently disagree with people like you that public order and compliance is such an important end that all means to get there are justified.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore was a link I thought to be at least tangentially related.

My position has always been and will always be against anyone that wants almost total control over what other people can do. Authoritarianism is never worth it.

Re: Singapore to test facial recognition on lampposts, stoking privacy fears

#40

Post by matthewmacleod »

Zarath wrote: post #15

Worst part is, you can't just go and destroy them because they will know who did it.

Honestly my experience with facial recognition suggests that it has about a 50% chance of doing that so maybe not such a risk.
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