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The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

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Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#381

Post by nyolfen »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #290
anon007 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US/NATO bombed the Chinese embassy [0] in former Yoguslavia so nothing is out of the question. Though this is UK. But still it shows embassies are not outside of US target zone. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/balkans

Yeah but that was a "mistake". Just as it was a "mistake" when NATO thought that the embassy was used as Serbia's military comm center. China stopped complaining after shown what NATO had on them.

sorry, what exactly do you think the US had to gain from bombing the chinese embassy in yugoslavia?

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#382

Post by kristjansson »

wallace_f wrote: post #168
roywiggins wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be accurate to model his operations in two phases. The first, when he was exposing secrets on his own. The second, when (it seems) Russia used him as a deniable way to launder secrets they had stolen into the American press. Exactly when one phase begins and the other ends, whether he knew it was happening at the time, and whether he committed any crimes against the United States during the second phase is m…

>Russia used him as a deniable way to launder secrets they had stolen into the American press. I have never seen proof of this accusation? Can you link me to it? Not the accusation, but proof? What is it: was he "used" like you said, or mislead, or intentionally aiding Russia? To be fair the DWS scandal is a real problem, a big deal, and a threat to our democracy... and nobody was seriously punished for that. DWS is…

> DWS “scandal”

Even if one accepts the premise (that there was active collusion inside the DNC that cost Sanders the election, binding popular primary elections have only been a thing since 1972. It’s quite a stretch to call the supposed failure of that system a threat to democracy.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#383

Post by IIAOPSW »

kodablah wrote: post #368
IIAOPSW wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this like the perception of him is entirely manufactured and divorced from any reality. Assange's image changed abruptly in 2016 because that is the year he went from politically agnostic public interest leaks to actively trying to influence an election and backing a candidate who considers the free press an "enemy of the people". It doesn't take a conspiratorial cabal to explain how Assange ruined his own im…

That some believe pre-2016 leaks were not political shows more about their bias than Wikileaks's motives. That motive matters now and didn't then shows similar bias.

Exactly what bias are you alluding to here? It certainly isn't the usual partisan hackery, as that would imply Democrats would hate pre-2016 wikileaks for damaging their president, and continue hating it post 2016 for helping the other guy. It would also imply Republican's would have liked wikileaks pre and post 2016. Instead what we see is a huge about face on both sides. I'm not being flippant here, I legit do not know what you are talking about.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#384

Post by coretx »

azernik wrote: post #313
coretx wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you some absurd and ridiculous details. When the WL backend for collateral murder was hosted at bahnhof in Sweden, moving it to .CH was among other reasons done because of certainly the US, and specifically & allegedly homeland security having launched a DDOS attack so strong it could have kicked Sweden offline. When US agents started their smearing campaign against Assange in Sweden, they accidentally adde…

Again - going from there to drone strikes (against an embassy in an allied country with a sophisticated air defense system) is absurd.

Indeed it is. Let me quote Hillary Clinton, former Secretary of State, /again/. "Can't we just drone this guy". Context: Being confronted with Assange his existence by her staff.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#385

Post by nyolfen »

jMyles wrote: post #315
tootie wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange is simply not an honest broker which is his one job. Even if you think the Chelsea Manning leak was valuable, what exactly was Assange's value add? The leaker was not protected. She was caught and prosecuted. The data was not protected. WikiLeaks was hacked and leaked all the raw data. The content was not shared in an objective way. Assange editorialized the content with his own opinions (ie Collateral Murder…

If this sort of assessment is the case against Assange (in terms of his character as a journalist), then I think he has a very strong case. > The leaker was not protected. She was caught and prosecuted. You're talking as if Assange or WikiLeaks disclosed the source. Are you suggesting that a journalist has a responsibility to protect a source unto the ends of the earth, even when that source openly and flatly confide…

>Nevertheless, a (much more ostensible respectable) journalist at The Guardian posted the passphrase and the files were leaked.

the guardian editor actually published the password in a book he wrote about the affair. seriously.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#386

Post by FireBeyond »

sjg007 wrote: post #364

I hope and pray that some smart lawyers come to his defense in both in England, Ecuador, and the USA. I hope that "we" are collectively smart enough to support him (and Snowden). He is probably not a Russian agent... all of that talk is a distraction (especially with Mueller).. if Russia left him out to dry then they would seriously curtail their intelligence operations... after all memes and fake news are far more e…

Why so? He has shown himself over time to be someone who has constantly reneged on his responsibilities, made obtuse efforts to be "understanding" when he has no standing ("offering" to be interviewed via video from the embassy - who else gets to decide how, when, where and if they are interviewed on criminal charges?), and shown himself to be entirely partisan in his motives when it comes down to it.

Why should "we" be "collectively supporting him", precisely?

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#387

Post by rtpg »

jacobush wrote: post #132
monocasa wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also just straight up extraordinary rendition, ie. showing up, black bagging someone, and flying off, outside the legal process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition Ironically, the UK doesn't allow extraordinary rendition, and it was a big deal to even let those planes refuel or use UK airspace, but Sweden historically has allowed it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza…

It was made a big deal in Sweden how ridiculous any fears were that Assange could be extradited from Sweden to the US if he would go to Sweden for hearings. And now...

it's still "ridiculous" insofar as an extradition from Sweden would not just involve Sweden US relations but US UK relations (so two relations instead of just one). This isn't rocket science, there are more moving parts to the "get him from Sweden" from the simpler "Get him from the UK" plan.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#388

Post by nl »

resters wrote: post #343
nl wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with posting "proof" here is that it's always unclear where to start. Do you accept that Guccifer 2.0 was a Russian agent? If not, then it's going to be a long post. If you do, then Guccifer 2.0 himself claimed he gave the leaks to Wikileaks[1]. Wikileaks tweeted the same information[2]. Which part is in question here exactly? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0#cite_note-:5-7 [2] https://twitt…

The entire Guccifer narrative is the most speculative and least substantiated aspect of the entire drama. That doesn't mean it's false, however. But one might wonder why anyone cares about it or gives it any consideration, when there are so many far stronger data points. The Guccifer narrative supports (weakly) the idea of a link between Russia and the emails. So in order for this to matter you have to believe that R…

in order to believe that you must believe that WL's journalism does not stand on its own

That doesn't really follow.

Wikileaks has a very strong agenda. If you read Assange's book "When Google met WikiLeaks"[1] it's pretty clear what it is.

It's possible to believe that the leaks are real docs, but that Wikileaks timed their release to maximize their effect on the US election, and that matters a lot.

I have to wonder when people oppose Assange due to indignation about Russia or Manning if the underlying reason is actually that they don't view the war logs or the emails to have been useful investigative journalism.

I think much of the war logs was dangerously unreadacted, but broadly was good. I think Assange was very happy to release emails because it both suited his philosophy ("no secrets") and his agenda. I also believe Assange was corrupted by the idea that he would be able to escape his cage in the embassy through some combination of helping Trump and Russian support.

[1] Extract: https://www.newsweek.com/assange-google-not-what-it-seems-27...

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#389

Post by nl »

no-s wrote: post #374
pcwalton wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. The Washington Post remains one of the best publications in the US. I certainly trust it more than Russian propaganda outlets such as Wikileaks.

so was the information provided by wikileaks true, or false?

The documents were true, the story built around them ("Hillary emails"/"Pizzagate"/"Seth Rich") was false and designed to undermine the Clinton candidacy.

I don't think anyone has ever seriously claimed anything else.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#390

Post by jstanley »

icelancer wrote: post #349
kuwze wrote: post #190

If he had kept his promise after Obama pardoned Chelsea Manning I would care.

Ah yes, because Assange lied about something and took it back it's totally cool a federal government prosecutes him for whistleblowing.

Right, but anyone breaking the law in order to do good is aware that they're breaking the law, they just determined that that's the best thing to do in the circumstances.
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