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The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

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Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#171

Post by buboard »

hnmonkey wrote: post #159
buboard wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this argument is defending the dirty laundry with an ad hominem attack. The fact being that he will no longer be able to air any government's dirty laundry from the prison and this kind of argument says it's for the better.

Huh? I said I wasn't defending the dirty laundry and that there's definitely some illegal stuff in there that should be prosecuted. The fact that he won't be able to air any government's dirty laundry is for the better. I can guarantee Russia will continue to air other country's dirty laundry with impunity in the future, with or without Assange.

So, you think there should be punishment for airing other countries dirty laundry? Should e.g. the US punish the turks for airing the Saudi's dirty business? I think that s not a defensible position

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#172

Post by hnmonkey »

wallace_f wrote: post #168
roywiggins wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be accurate to model his operations in two phases. The first, when he was exposing secrets on his own. The second, when (it seems) Russia used him as a deniable way to launder secrets they had stolen into the American press. Exactly when one phase begins and the other ends, whether he knew it was happening at the time, and whether he committed any crimes against the United States during the second phase is m…

>Russia used him as a deniable way to launder secrets they had stolen into the American press. I have never seen proof of this accusation? Can you link me to it? Not the accusation, but proof? What is it: was he "used" like you said, or mislead, or intentionally aiding Russia? To be fair the DWS scandal is a real problem, a big deal, and a threat to our democracy... and nobody was seriously punished for that. DWS is…

There's literal proof throughout this post. In fact, I posted some too.

There are definitely levels of threats to American democracy. If DWS refers to Wasserman-Schultz then it pales in comparison to an enemy foreign state's military intelligence corrupting the American government.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#173

Post by buboard »

mejari wrote: post #158
whatshisface wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you believe that he was a Russian asset? Is there any indication that he would not publish information critical of Putin if it was sent to him?

>Is there any indication that he would not publish information critical of Putin if it was sent to him? Yes. We have examples of exactly that happening. https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-l...

Even if he is partial to putin, his work benefits the world by pushing others to do the same. I 'd rather live in a world where governments compete to expose each other's secret than one in which they conspire to hide as many as possible from their people. That's medieval

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#174

Post by boomboomsubban »

kjksf wrote: post #145
boomboomsubban wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An indictment is not proof for a start, this is a fundamental part of the US justice system. That indictment does not actually mention Wikileaks at all, let alone suggest that Wikileaks knew the source was the Russian government.

Can we agree that an indictment is much more than "nothing" and indicate a strong belief on the part of prosecution that they have a winnable case? Your reading of the indictment ( https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2018/07/Mueller... ) is severely lacking. It specifically mentions that 12 russians conspired "with persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury" to "stage releases of the stolen documents to int…

>Can we agree that an indictment is much more than "nothing" and indicate a strong belief on the part of prosecution that they have a winnable case?

Sure. Wikileaks still is not mentioned as the prosecution does not feel they have a winnable case against the organization, and these indictments do not show Wikileaks knowingly coordinated with Russia.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#175

Post by rspeer »

nailer wrote: post #74
krapp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What emails, specifically, were newsworthy?

The ones where it was revealed the Clinton campaign was running the DNC and Sanders never stood a chance. Whether your support that or not I don't think anyone disputes that this was revealed by Wikileaks

The pushing of this message by Wikileaks and the Kremlin was quite a feat of propaganda, and you can tell the propaganda was well done because they made its believers believe that everyone else believed it too. Even now that the source has been revealed.

Sanders lost the primary all on his own, and you didn't need "leaks" to reveal this, just polls. Conspiring to make Sanders lose is like conspiring to make water wet.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#176

Post by hnmonkey »

buboard wrote: post #171
hnmonkey wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I said I wasn't defending the dirty laundry and that there's definitely some illegal stuff in there that should be prosecuted. The fact that he won't be able to air any government's dirty laundry is for the better. I can guarantee Russia will continue to air other country's dirty laundry with impunity in the future, with or without Assange.

So, you think there should be punishment for airing other countries dirty laundry? Should e.g. the US punish the turks for airing the Saudi's dirty business? I think that s not a defensible position

I'm not going to bother responding to you anymore. You're definitely twisting my words into something you'd like to attack.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#177

Post by stavros »

consumer451 wrote: post #160
StavrosK wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you read the article you linked.

I apologize if I missed something in the thread and misinterpreted it. I did read the link, can you please enlighten me with your interpretation?

Whataboutism is when an argument is presented with a counterargument of hypocrisy, ie literally what the person replying to me was doing. The argument was "the US leaders are protecting themselves by extraditing Assange, who uncovered their crimes", and the reply was "but Assange is a Russian asset, so he's not so great either". Asset or not, the crimes were still committed, and the people who committed them are still guilty.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#178

Post by hnmonkey »

buboard wrote: post #173
mejari wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is there any indication that he would not publish information critical of Putin if it was sent to him? Yes. We have examples of exactly that happening. https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-l...

Even if he is partial to putin, his work benefits the world by pushing others to do the same. I 'd rather live in a world where governments compete to expose each other's secret than one in which they conspire to hide as many as possible from their people. That's medieval

Medieval? It's what every country has been doing forever. Every spy agency on earth does this and has done this since their inception. It's practically their MO.

So... you do live in that world.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#179

Post by mejari »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #68
shostack wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "This is untrue. There is nothing suggesting that Wikileaks has knowingly coordinated with Russia." Really? Nothing at all? Big fat nothingburger? https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-the-latest-mue...

An indictment is not proof for a start, this is a fundamental part of the US justice system. That indictment does not actually mention Wikileaks at all, let alone suggest that Wikileaks knew the source was the Russian government.

You did not say "there is no absolute proof', you said "There is nothing suggesting". This very much suggests.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#180

Post by kahirsch »

Alex3917 wrote: post #121
jsutton wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Believed' is a loose term, you'd have to be deluded to believe something like that.

You've apparently forgotten all about that whole Osama Bin Laden thing. You know, the person who Clinton sent a team to kill even though he was never charged with any crime. There's even a video of Clinton watching his illegal assassination.

Bin Laden was indicted in 1998 for multiple capital crimes. His co-conspirators were convicted.

The Taliban refused to extradite bin Laden and the UN Security Council responded with sanctions (e.g. Security Council resolution 1267).

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