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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#291

Post by IC4RUS »

icedchai wrote: post #32
leroy_masochist wrote: post #23

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice. I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't…

They're probably not smart enough to get in, anyway. If they were, they'd go to FB, milk that huge salary, unload their RSU's on a regular basis, save and invest, and FIRE by age 35. Signed, a CS graduate and FB stock holder with 500% return.

You're making the assumption that all smart students would want to go and make money (if smart is even a good proxy for skills among college grads).

Some are motivated by other considerations, such as impact of work and work/life balance.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#292

Post by EpicEng »

saagarjha wrote: post #251
EpicEng wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of anything, just a bunch of talk. It's easy to be opposed to X when X does not offer you anything. As soon as X is good for you, many (most?) people don't stick to their guns.

It’s always a compromise. Facebook offering you an extra $10K but you have to work on increasing engagement? Probably a pass. Facebook offering an extra $500K to work on public research that doesn’t help their bottom line? Maybe something worth looking at. Currently, I don’t see any jobs at Facebook that tip the scale for me personally.

Well, exactly; it's easy to take the moral highground when, well... it's easy. When there's a real choice at hand most people do what's best for them.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#293

Post by jnwatson »

lynal wrote: post #191
gpm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

This is called a "compensating differential" (see, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensating_differential ). There's a decent body of literature in economics on this. This falls under labor economics.

Interesting. In the same vein, video game companies have a negative compensating differential. Lots of kids want to grow up to program video games, so they don't have to pay them as much under worse work environments.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#294

Post by [deleted] »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #203
eesmith wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a bit like blaming the scientists of the Manhattan Project for dropping the atomic bomb. Consider Joseph Rotblat. He worked on the Manhattan Project because believed that it was needed as a deterrent against a German nuclear weapon. After he learned that Germany had given up on the bomb, he left the Manhattan Project - the only one to do so - and felt betrayed by its use in Japan. "Rotblat believed that scient…

There's some evidence that the use in Japan was partly an attempt to deter the Soviet Union from future aggression.

[deleted]

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#296

Post by toomanybeersies »

leesalminen wrote: post #15
yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

I could see debt-laden recent grads compromising their ethics to work at FB. I don't see myself (not debt-laden, have a great job) compromising mine just to work for them. What's the long term effect of that trend? Will FB be chock full of juniors with an ever depleting number of seniors?

In my experience, there's no shortage of people who have no moral issue working for Facebook and other similar companies.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#297

Post by recharged96 »

save_ferris wrote: post #24
leesalminen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see debt-laden recent grads compromising their ethics to work at FB. I don't see myself (not debt-laden, have a great job) compromising mine just to work for them. What's the long term effect of that trend? Will FB be chock full of juniors with an ever depleting number of seniors?

> Will FB be chock full of juniors with an ever depleting number of seniors? Only if everyone that has an opportunity to work there shares your moral compass. This industry is really good at marketing, and not just to customers but employees too. I mean, look at how popular facebook still is among the public even after all of these scandals. There doesn't appear to be any serious attempt by the shareholders to demand…

FB is the MS windows of the social media world.

1999,MS Windows was de facto, but everyone hated it. Linux/Unix/MacOS was for the cool kids.

But all business folk loved MS, still do, from shareholders to 401k holders.

FB is no different.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#298

Post by deminature »

gpm wrote: post #28
yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

Anecdotally, FB's work/life balance is apparently pretty poor compared to other 'tier 1' tech companies. 50-60hrs+ is required to get above 'meets most expectations'.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#299

Post by jasonm23 »

jnbiche wrote: post #247
haberman wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regret that my point may not have come across. I don't actually believe in pejoratively labeling any good-faith argument, and I would not actually use a label like "Jacobin whinging" in earnest. My point is: labeling something is not the same as refuting it.

Apologies, my irony meter is malfunctioning today. I read it twice but I'm so used to reading this serious comments similar to your sarcastic critique online these days, it didn't read as sarcasm.

I like to say, the best thing about the Internet is the reasonable debate, and the accurate detection of sarcasm.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#300

Post by isoskeles »

haberman wrote: post #239
AlexandrB wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems to capture the current intellectual zeitgeist very well. Once we name something, we can dismiss it without engaging it. In the internet age, this is a necessity because the other pattern is the same claims repeated over and over again with the expectation that a comprehensive rebuttal must be provided each time. At some point you have to name the thing so it can be added as an entry to Wikipedia and move…

Your arguments are examples of the false equivalence fallacy. [1] Sorry but I don't have time to provide any more comprehensive of a rebuttal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence (This is why I don't think labeling is a rebuttal.)

People aren’t understanding what you’re doing, apparently. But I appreciate it.
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