Germany plans €3B in AI investments • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#21

Post by Mahn » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

swift532 wrote: post #6

Isn0gud wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, but I was wondering how an alternative could look like. Probably just giving it to universities to create more and better paid PhD possitions?!

That, and maybe instead of giving the money to a big, inefficient corporation that's going to spend it on low quality bullshit and snake oil, spreading the money along multiple established companies and startups, seeding them all with some money and offering additional incentives for achieving milestones/whatever.

Imagine if those 3B were used to seed 3000 startups with 1M each. Even if only one third of these worked out, what an incredible golden age of productivity would that mean for the country.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#22

Post by blattimwind » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

5_minutes wrote: post #13

Germany is still not allowed to have an offensive army, so it makes a lot of sense to at least stay first class in tech, and in AI, in order to stay relevant as a world leader for the future.

The Kellog-Briand pact prohibits signatories (including the US) from offensive wars anyway. Article 2 of the United Nations Charter states that members shouldn't even use threats of offensive actions. And the Grundgesetz obviously bans offensive wars as well.

Not sure what you're thinking, but you're waaaaaay out there.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#23

Post by Rinzler89 » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

Isn0gud wrote: post #11

mrdodge wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd probably get more return by 'encouraging' Google and American tech companies to open bigger offices.

Why favor big companies that already have resources?

Because Germmany like most other European countries doesn't really have any local FAANG like companies and you can see than in the job market.

Most dev salaries at local companies are garbage compared to what FAANG companies pay in their EU offices.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#24

Post by bitL » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

5_minutes wrote: post #13

Germany is still not allowed to have an offensive army, so it makes a lot of sense to at least stay first class in tech, and in AI, in order to stay relevant as a world leader for the future.

Everyone in Germany I know who actually made a world-class product had to escape some inept manager at some large German corporation, and those people are automatically excluded from any government subsidies due to a lack of political contacts. So the money will go to people with political skills and buzzword bingo, likely not being able to understand anything they are talking about. Then, in 5 years everyone will look back and wonder why Germany is again 5 years behind and resorts to importing all software from US; then external factors will be found to blame (or some poor scapegoats that didn't cover their backs). And a next gen of clueless managers will step up for another cycle with another hot technology.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#25

Post by rsp1984 » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

The problem is not a lack of funds. The problem is bureaucracy and a lack of startup infrastructure. My feeling is that the people in charge have absolutely no effing clue about how to most efficiently deploy this money so they will do what sounds good on paper but will have 0 effect in reality.

If it goes how it usually goes the largest part of this money will likely to to universities and other research institutions where it will be spent financing open-ended research projects that, in virtually all cases, go exactly nowhere, due to lack of proper incentives to produce something that works.

The rest of the money will be "up for grabs" by companies who have perfected the crafts and arts of getting grant money from the German or EU government. The bureaucratic hurdles and time frames are typically way too large for most capital constrained nimble startups who need to move fast. So it's mostly established and/or zombie companies that take advantage of this.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#26

Post by orbifold » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

mrdodge wrote: post #19

Isn0gud wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why favor big companies that already have resources?

It's an interesting thought. Does German really have a prayer in this space? Making breakthroughs in this space isn't something just any trained student can do. The best all work for American tech companies... German co's don't believe in paying well. This can be extended to most European nations.

Those are really ignorant statements. Bosch, Siemens, BMW etc. definitely pay well and employ plenty of talented people.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#27

Post by j_jochem » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

Mahn wrote: post #21

swift532 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and maybe instead of giving the money to a big, inefficient corporation that's going to spend it on low quality bullshit and snake oil, spreading the money along multiple established companies and startups, seeding them all with some money and offering additional incentives for achieving milestones/whatever.

Imagine if those 3B were used to seed 3000 startups with 1M each. Even if only one third of these worked out, what an incredible golden age of productivity would that mean for the country.

One third is next to impossible. Anecdotally, startup survival rate should be around 5-10%. However, that should still yield better results than distributing the money amongst SAP and Deutsche Telekom.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#28

Post by musha68k » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

Good initiative but unfortunately far too late to the game.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#29

Post by mrdodge » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

mrdodge wrote: post #19

Isn0gud wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why favor big companies that already have resources?

It's an interesting thought. Does German really have a prayer in this space? Making breakthroughs in this space isn't something just any trained student can do. The best all work for American tech companies... German co's don't believe in paying well. This can be extended to most European nations.

Sure, but they are smart at the industries of the past. Will bureaucratic Germany be able to adapt? I don't think so. Take electric cars for instance. Much simpler than traditional cars. Will devastate the Mittelstand.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#30

Post by bitL » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

Rinzler89 wrote: post #23

Isn0gud wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why favor big companies that already have resources?

Because Germmany like most other European countries doesn't really have any local FAANG like companies and you can see than in the job market. Most dev salaries at local companies are garbage compared to what FAANG companies pay in their EU offices.

News for you: FAANG companies pay garbage salaries in their EU offices (Switzerland is not EU). Source: glassdoor.com