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Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

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Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#11

Post by [deleted] »

defen wrote: post #10
credo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" It is much more than that. If you're a US citizen and you're not carrying proof of citizenship, you could get thrown in jail for not having your "papers". Now, I'm sure many citizens feel that their accent or their skin color or some other attribute protects them from sent to jail and that they don't need to carry their papers with them. However, if a cop thi…

> If you're a US citizen and you're not carrying proof of citizenship, you could get thrown in jail for not having your "papers". ...if you are lawfully stopped, detained, or arrested, you may be held until your immigration status is verified. I don't see why this is a big deal. There is no grand scheme to sweep the countryside and round up everyone with brown skin or a Canadian accent.

[deleted]

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#12

Post by izendejas »

If legislators really wanted to reduce illegal immigration they would also go after the demand, implementing tougher penalties against those who hire illegal immigrants^^ or outsource to companies that do. Of course, this will never happen as the walmarts, mcdonalds, big tech corps^, etc will never allow it because surely their costs would go up and so would their prices.

Edit: ^ work at a big tech company? A decent percentage of the janitors and cooks are illegal (and, for the record, are not just Hispanic)

Edit2: ^^Including themselves--because they do.

edit3: (sorry I was on my smartphone before). If the supply of jobs for illegal immigrants goes down, so does their influx. It's true in the US--and it's true in Europe and it's true in Asia: http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1247156221.99/ http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/01/93137/recession-enforc...

But then, of course, in a global economy, cutting the influx of illegal immigrants (and immigration in general) would lead to more jobs shipped north/south/overseas.

So in the end, many of these legislators are really just pandering and contributing to the fear-mongering here and everywhere as people are, in many cases, naturally xenophobic.

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#13

Post by butterfi »

defen wrote: post #2

This strikes me as ridiculous fear mongering. The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" - the idea being that illegal immigrants will leave Arizona if they see that the state is serious about enforcing immigration law. Are we to suppose that people will continue to live in Arizona illegally, given the knowledge that there are now real penalties? The article also uses scare language like "The law could s…

"But instead of taking his idea to the Arizona statehouse floor, Pearce first took it to a hotel conference room.

It was last December at the Grand Hyatt in Washington, D.C. Inside, there was a meeting of a secretive group called the American Legislative Exchange Council. Insiders call it ALEC.

It's a membership organization of state legislators and powerful corporations and associations, such as the tobacco company Reynolds American Inc., ExxonMobil and the National Rifle Association. Another member is the billion-dollar Corrections Corporation of America — the largest private prison company in the country.

It was there that Pearce's idea took shape.

"I did a presentation," Pearce said. "I went through the facts. I went through the impacts and they said, 'Yeah.'"

This isn't just about illegal immigrants, this is about corporations that get legislation passed for their own financial gain. Granted this happens all the time, but this is so blatantly targeted towards people who have little or no defense. The potential for abuse is obvious. We've already had a U.S. judge busted for receiving kick-backs for sending juveniles to a youth facility. The US already has one of the largest prison populations in the world. This is a crime against humanity in the making.

We should be afraid.

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#14

Post by scrod »

izendejas wrote: post #12

If legislators really wanted to reduce illegal immigration they would also go after the demand, implementing tougher penalties against those who hire illegal immigrants^^ or outsource to companies that do. Of course, this will never happen as the walmarts, mcdonalds, big tech corps^, etc will never allow it because surely their costs would go up and so would their prices. Edit: ^ work at a big tech company? A decent…

And in fact, companies that hire illegal immigrants benefit greatly from stricter immigration enforcement; the more pressure from the state that's applied to immigrants, the easier it is for employers to lower their pay, subject them to dangerous and harsh conditions, and occasionally even refuse to compensate them altogether. If they refuse, ICE will deport their families.

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#15

Post by kjhgfkjmhng »

defen wrote: post #10
credo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" It is much more than that. If you're a US citizen and you're not carrying proof of citizenship, you could get thrown in jail for not having your "papers". Now, I'm sure many citizens feel that their accent or their skin color or some other attribute protects them from sent to jail and that they don't need to carry their papers with them. However, if a cop thi…

> If you're a US citizen and you're not carrying proof of citizenship, you could get thrown in jail for not having your "papers". ...if you are lawfully stopped, detained, or arrested, you may be held until your immigration status is verified. I don't see why this is a big deal. There is no grand scheme to sweep the countryside and round up everyone with brown skin or a Canadian accent.

Good job the police don't have any sort of history of arresting people on spurious charges due to their skin color.

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#16

Post by JohnnyBrown »

defen wrote: post #2

This strikes me as ridiculous fear mongering. The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" - the idea being that illegal immigrants will leave Arizona if they see that the state is serious about enforcing immigration law. Are we to suppose that people will continue to live in Arizona illegally, given the knowledge that there are now real penalties? The article also uses scare language like "The law could s…

The frightening thing is not this particular application, but the broader concepts of (1) extension of an already draconian police power (2) almost entirely brought about by a private profit motive. Capitalism is an evolutionary process and as such is almost beyond the control of human intentions, so seeing it move against individual liberty is highly alarming.

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#18

Post by [deleted] »

credo wrote: post #5
defen wrote: post #2

This strikes me as ridiculous fear mongering. The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" - the idea being that illegal immigrants will leave Arizona if they see that the state is serious about enforcing immigration law. Are we to suppose that people will continue to live in Arizona illegally, given the knowledge that there are now real penalties? The article also uses scare language like "The law could s…

>> The point of the law is "attrition through enforcement" It is much more than that. If you're a US citizen and you're not carrying proof of citizenship, you could get thrown in jail for not having your "papers". Now, I'm sure many citizens feel that their accent or their skin color or some other attribute protects them from sent to jail and that they don't need to carry their papers with them. However, if a cop thi…

[deleted]

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#19

Post by izendejas »

scrod wrote: post #14
izendejas wrote: post #12

If legislators really wanted to reduce illegal immigration they would also go after the demand, implementing tougher penalties against those who hire illegal immigrants^^ or outsource to companies that do. Of course, this will never happen as the walmarts, mcdonalds, big tech corps^, etc will never allow it because surely their costs would go up and so would their prices. Edit: ^ work at a big tech company? A decent…

And in fact, companies that hire illegal immigrants benefit greatly from stricter immigration enforcement; the more pressure from the state that's applied to immigrants, the easier it is for employers to lower their pay, subject them to dangerous and harsh conditions, and occasionally even refuse to compensate them altogether. If they refuse, ICE will deport their families.

Yes, and we all end up paying the indirect costs of this cheap labor because, as is well-publicized, most of these people won't have health insurance so premiums, medical costs, Medicaid costs, etc go up.

Re: Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

#20

Post by jackvalentine »

jacoblyles wrote: post #17
guelo wrote: post #6

Private prisons are an abomination and should not exist.

Why?

It creates an industry of private businesses that have but one motive: a profit motive.

They are therefor motivated to do everything they can to increase incarceration rates to create demand for their services of imprisonment. This article illustrates that pretty clearly. It also creates situations like the corrupt judge/private prison kickback scheme in Pennsylvania recently.(1)

We don't need profit-driven companies who profit from increased rates of incarceration, they have no reason to really rehabilitate people - they want them back in the system ASAP.

(1) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?_r=2&h...

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