Disneyland with the Death Penalty
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Disneyland with the Death Penalty
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Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#2The author hits it spot on about Singapore. It would probably have more in common with Apple than IBM--efficiently run, capitalist (to an extent), but is more or less a one-party system, as is common in East Asia (with the exception of Australia).
Singapore is perhaps the best example of the so-called Apple 1984-ad state of information purity directives. OK, maybe that is an exaggeration. It is more likely the result of Asian/Confucian culture that views the State as an entity that must not be disagreed with. And like Apple, the standards are very controlled, and those found in violation with its policies are to be eliminated. [1] Like Apple, if you use the product--or the system, in Singapore--as intended, you'll find it very pleasant and easy to use. Try to do something not allowed, and you'll find very little tolerance for it and very little sympathy too.
A lot of Westerners find it bewildering that none of these people will fight for their rights and will let the state erode on their freedoms. That is because it is a result of Confucian influence that has taught them specifically to never be a thorn in the side to anyone: groupthink mentality. So you see that Singapore's codified laws have more in common with the first codes of history or UCMJ than the forgiving laws of the West. Speech is viewed as a privilege in almost all East Asian countries, and those found in abuse will be punished severely and swiftly, and if there are no laws that will allow them to do so, they will be ostracized.
Hong Kong is probably as close as you can get to a free economic state as far as East Asian regions go [2]. It's ironic--I know--that a Chinese region has a relatively free system. But Hong Kong's laws are some of the best in the world--based on Common law framework, right to trial by jury, freedom of speech until 2040. Private banks are authorized to print money/bank notes (HSBC, Standard Chartered, Hang Seng, Bank of China), and the government keeps taxes low (no sales tax and income capped at 15%, 10% if you're in medicine or education). There are no tariffs or excise, and the government sustains public services by hiring and paying good salaries of competent public officials. Hell, their Chief Executive wears a bow tie and his website is http://www.CEO.gov.hk
In fact, I was surprised that all phones in Hong Kong are sold unlocked because government regulations require freedom of phone service. Which is where I bought my iPhone. (And it should come as no surprise that Singapore sells them locked.)
A lot of people think Hong Kong has been ruined by China, but so far, it reminds me a lot of what a startup country with rights would entail; I would venture to say that it is poster child of libertarianism. It is more capitalist than the States (subway and rail systems are privatized), yet provides excellent government benefits (the government makes money by selling land at market value and hiring good salespeople to do it). There is still no death penalty in Hong Kong, and the judicial system is one of the most balanced in the world, with judges that have remained since even during British rule (you are not required to be a Hong Konger to sit as a judge). Hong Kong isn't as clean as Singapore, but it's certainly friendlier to do business. (many Western businesses will not sign agreements with Chinese companies on the Mainland because of its legal framework; China Mobile, for instance, has its corporate headquarters in Hong Kong for this reason). You can't be put in jail just because you write something the government doesn't like. And a whiff of cannabis won't kill you either.
Singapore is similar, except they are probably closer to the Chinese in their ideaology. A lot of people ask me what I think a free China would look like. I said possibly very similar to Singapore, and the truth is, there is a lot in common with China. Taiwan, the so-called Republic of China or "free China," was a military dictatorship (complete with summary trials/executions) until 1993.
[1] You can see that this sustained China through 5,000 years of tyranny since Confucius was well-liked by Chinese kings since he sold brain-washing as a philosophy; that all must respect the parents, the state, and the teacher, because if you do all three, you'll respect me, the king.
[2] Edited for grammar and clarified that Hong Kong is the top ranking free economic system. The laws which are friendly to civil rights (including no death penalty which is still on the books in Japan, freedom of speech), fair application of the law, make it economically very free. However, 1/3 of the government is controlled by the Mainland, and the 2/3rds by corporate interests and the people. http://asiancorrespondent.com/hong-kong-blog/freest-econonom...
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#3Singapore is not that bad. If you stay in the touristy areas, yeah, everything is corporate and efficient seeming. You can go from the airport to your hotel without ever going outside. If you go to where people that live in Singapore go, though, it's just like any other city. Okay, not as cool as Manhattan or Tokyo or Hong Kong or London, but still pretty normal.
As for the death penalty, yeah, they have it. Singapore talks tough but it does not feel like a police state there. When I come home to the US, I am asked 20 questions by the immigration agents. I live here, just let me in. In Singapore, they have "death to drug traffickers" written everywhere, but the immigration agents did not ask me a single question. I don't even recall the usual customs line (red lane / green lane). If you change planes in Singapore, you don't even go through security. You are released into the secure area and you just walk to the gate where your other flight leaves. If you want to traffic drugs, they may have the death penalty, but they don't really care. (They say they care, and they make an example out of one in a million people, but they don't really care. Interestingly, everything is like this in Singapore.)
Anyway, on paper, Singapore is terrible. In real life... it's not too different from any other country.
(The US seems upset about Singapore's death penalty, but we murder a lot more criminals than they do...)
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#4This is fascinating. And terrifying. I can't imagine living in an environment like this. I'd be extremely interested to know what (if anything) has changed since 1993 when this when was written.
(Speaking of which, a (1993) in the title might be nice, since there's no date on the print version. The original is here: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html)
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#5Singapore is not that bad. If you stay in the touristy areas, yeah, everything is corporate and efficient seeming. You can go from the airport to your hotel without ever going outside. If you go to where people that live in Singapore go, though, it's just like any other city. Okay, not as cool as Manhattan or Tokyo or Hong Kong or London, but still pretty normal. As for the death penalty, yeah, they have it. Singapor…
Keep in mind the US has more people than Singapore, so the number will obviously be higher for the US. But if we were to enforce drug laws in the US like Singapore, you would see a lot more death sentences. And floggings, if we had that in the States. But yes, I do see it hypocritical when we criticize Singapore. Except it's a bit of a straw man when the US has 300 million (compared to Singapore's 4 million), and every state having their own opinion on how to apply it, if at all.
Singapore admittedly isn't that bad. It is one of the most efficient economies in the world, but freedom of speech is very controlled, and libel laws come with criminal consequences. If you stay out of hot topic areas, you won't run into trouble, but you will if you have thE limelight over you on an unpopular topic.
Don't forget to remember the simple guideline that epitomizes Singapore's reaction to lawbreaking on the back of the disembarkation card on the plane in bold, all-caps red letters: "Welcome to Singapore. Death to drug traffickers under Singapore law." [1]
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SingaporeEmbarkationCard.p... Taiwan used to have a similar message, but has been rarely enforced.
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#6This is a famous article from 1993, notable enough to have its own Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Penal...
What I find interesting is that this piece doesn't include the words "crime" or "murder". There are what, one or two (solved) murders per year on an island of 5 million people? Freedom includes bad things not happening to you.
Other freedoms you can enjoy (as far as I know): not having to drive anywhere, being able to hire whoever you want [1]
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#7Singapore is not that bad. If you stay in the touristy areas, yeah, everything is corporate and efficient seeming. You can go from the airport to your hotel without ever going outside. If you go to where people that live in Singapore go, though, it's just like any other city. Okay, not as cool as Manhattan or Tokyo or Hong Kong or London, but still pretty normal. As for the death penalty, yeah, they have it. Singapor…
Challenge the Lee dictatorship and comeback and tell us how little they care.
Yes they do care and yes they will execute you https://duckduckgo.com/?q=singapore+execute+australian even if you are not a king pin, just some dumb kid.
Also don't get stuck there with out health cover/travel insurance or you will regret it, its not malaysia/thailand.
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#8I got to know Singapore really well last year while we were working on the Crunchpad there. It is a great place to start a company.
A lot of this article is outdated, but it is infamous. Singapore is still an autocratic regime, but steadily becoming more progressive. For instance, local bloggers used to be tailed/monitored and harassed, while today they are invited to official government events and given blogger passes (like a press pass) to cover events on behalf of the citizenry.
The city/country is very surreal, especially once you begin to dig under the surface.
I have a blog post about it that has been sitting in my drafts for over a year now with a bunch of observations (I met a lot of entrepreneurs, businesses, the government people etc.). I have a lot of interesting stories about Singapore. Reading about Singapore again today has prompted me to dig it up - I will publish it this weekend.
I love that place so much that I would seriously consider opening an office there, or at least hiring some people there, for my next startup. It is definitely the most 'Silicon Valley' like city in this hemisphere.
If anybody on HN needs some tips or intros re: Singapore, feel free to email me.
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#9The author hits it spot on about Singapore. It would probably have more in common with Apple than IBM--efficiently run, capitalist (to an extent), but is more or less a one-party system, as is common in East Asia (with the exception of Australia). Singapore is perhaps the best example of the so-called Apple 1984-ad state of information purity directives. OK, maybe that is an exaggeration. It is more likely the result…
>In fact, I was surprised that all phones in Hong Kong are sold unlocked because government regulations require freedom of phone service. Which is where I bought my iPhone. (and it should come as no surprise that Singapore sells them locked.) I would venture to say that [Hong Kong] is poster child of libertarianism
To clear up a common misconception I see (and I have no understanding of where this misunderstanding comes from), 'net neutrality' and everything of that ilk (including regulated phone unlocking) is NOT libertarian. It is the exact opposite.
Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty
#10The author hits it spot on about Singapore. It would probably have more in common with Apple than IBM--efficiently run, capitalist (to an extent), but is more or less a one-party system, as is common in East Asia (with the exception of Australia). Singapore is perhaps the best example of the so-called Apple 1984-ad state of information purity directives. OK, maybe that is an exaggeration. It is more likely the result…
Comments like this are what make a binary voting system inefficient. Two thirds of your comment is spot on and pretty much exactly what I came here to say. When I initially viewed your comment it had been down voted and I debated whether or not I should vote it back up. But there are some glaring unfairnesses in your assessment that make me take pause.
Suggesting that Hong Kong is the freest state in the region is kind of ridiculous when you compare it to japan or taiwan (post martial law). Last time I had looked (3 or 4 years ago) both were higher on the UN Human Freedom Index (unfortunately I couldn't find a list online). Also I wouldn't agree that Hong Kong should be held up as an example of a start up state. I love Hong Kong, it is definitely one of the greatest cities in the world. But it produces very little in the way of innovation outside of finance. There isn't a booming start up community in Hong Kong for the same reason there isn't one in Singapore. Because to do business on any worthwhile scale, you have to know which wheels to grease and know the right people to grease them. There was a really great article on this a while ago about why a key reason there weren't any Walmart types in Hong Kong was because it was more profitable to the Triads to keep all the mom and pop shops in business than to work with larger corporations (unfortunately I can't seem to Google anything).
But honestly, those points aren't really what bothered me about your comment as to some extent they are based on perception. What was more perplexing to me was the assertion that Confucianism played a key role in the lack of democracy in Singapore. Certainly Confucianism has played a key role in shaping Singaporean society, but no more than it has in Hong Kong, and almost certainly to a lesser extent than it has in Taiwan. One would be hard pressed to find a nation with a large Chinese population in the subcontinent that doesn't have strong Confucian influences.
Ultimately Hong Kong and Singapore ( and more and more Taipei) are basically the same cities filling the same roles for different populations. The only real difference is Hong Kong is a much more fun city to live in. I agree that Singapore has a glaring issue in the freedoms they allow their people, but really there are a lot of country that do a lot of business that have similar problems (as an American I wouldn't exclude China or the US from that list).