NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job • Hacker News Board

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#191

Post by Tyrek » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:04 AM UTC

longerthoughts wrote: post #147

boomka wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know who you are referring to as NYC, but citizens of USA as a whole are worse off. Pitting one USA municipality against another to extract subsidy for what Amazon would do anyways is just another mechanism for wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.

> just another mechanism for wealth transfer from the poor to the rich I'm not sure this type of competition is a great thing for citizens, but is this really a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich? Doesn't most tax revenue in the US come from the rich, meaning they're covering most of the bill? In that case it would be more like wealth transfer from rich people to rich companies with some of that wealth making…

Just go another level deeper - this was tax money that would otherwise go towards city programs that would disproportionately benefit the poor. The end result is a transfer from the poor to Amazon's shareholders (and possibly may result in a net benefit to NYC)

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#192

Post by endtime » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:09 AM UTC

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #142

NoblePublius wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the opposite. The tax gains out number the tax breaks 3 to 1. Each one of these $150k jobs will net NY state $13.8k of income tax per year and (at least) $2500 of sales tax. The tax break per job is $4800 per year (the $48k figure you may have seen is over ten years).

Still not free market though.

How is not free market for polities to compete for attractive employers?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#193

Post by chrisseaton » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:09 AM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #184

chrisseaton wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I mean that the competition may have motivated cities to create better offers of infrastructure to compete. If they all sat back and said 'well Amazon will have to go somewhere we won't bother making any effort' that may not have happened, and Amazon would be less efficient and the whole country would earn less. For example some cities were proposing building things like extra train stations, which benefit everyon…

There is a difference between building public infrastructure and giving tax-exemptions.. Public infrastructure is available to all.. why can't the public finance it without Amazon?

> why can't the public finance it without Amazon?

Cities may have been hoping that with Amazon moving into a region they would have extra tax receipts which would enable spending they would not have been able to afford before.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#194

Post by Dowwie » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:11 AM UTC

Have you ever worked with a former employee of Google or Amazon? Evidently, they don't relocate every time they change jobs. The entire economy gains as new talent arrives and stays.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#195

Post by htk » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:11 AM UTC

mychael wrote: post #187

The worst part is that people read headlines like this and think that this is what capitalism is. (Hint: this is not capitalism, this is crony capitalism and corporatism).

Worse yet is people making up their minds about a subject only by reading a headline. I don't know if you did this, but it appears so.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#196

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:12 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #131

Let's be clear, the free market this is not. It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. It's one thing for to use taxpayer monies to create jobs and job opportunity (i.e., education). That's a reasonable expectation within the scope of gov's governing. However, it's another thing for gov to buy jobs - and thus votes - by effectively subsidizing some mega-corporation. If Amazon needs money, that's what…

It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild.

I like how you tacitly acknowledge the large corporate entity shares a little responsibility in there at the end. Yes, this is a government failure but it is also the logic of capitalism at work, which says that money should come before all other considerations. Government is rather corrupt, but it is business that has corrupted it.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#197

Post by vonmoltke » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:12 AM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #155

NoblePublius wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the opposite. The tax gains out number the tax breaks 3 to 1. Each one of these $150k jobs will net NY state $13.8k of income tax per year and (at least) $2500 of sales tax. The tax break per job is $4800 per year (the $48k figure you may have seen is over ten years).

Are these software jobs? I don't know if they'll be attracting more people in such a tight labor market, or just bumping up rates for those who already here. There's plenty of unfulfilled demand for software engineers in NY, what does Amazon offer to add to supply?

> There's plenty of unfulfilled demand for software engineers in NY, what does Amazon offer to add to supply?

You wouldn't know that from the pickiness of some companies around here.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#198

Post by kodablah » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #181

kodablah wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the other facts as guff, this is a common misunderstanding: > The abatements in __your__ community came out of someone else's pocket. That money had to come from somewhere. Abatements are not gifts, they are reductions. The money that was not taken did not have to come from anywhere. The reductions did not amount to a negative total (not even close in my case), and therefore the abatements essentially amount…

> "Abatements are not gifts, they are reductions." Yes. But you make it sounds like the gov services being provided was also reduced. Is that the case? If not, then that means the services being provided still have to be paid for. So if it's not your community, then where do you think that money is coming from?

> But you make it sounds like the gov services being provided was also reduced

No. I stated, "The reductions did not amount to a negative total" which includes public services. I am saying the new tax income more than covers the services needed. Cost per resident is not linear. Again, these are sales prices, not below-cost prices. Governments are reducing tax rates to significantly increase tax totals, a reasonable investment.

> where do you think that money is coming from?

The same place it otherwise would, just at a reduced bulk rate.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#199

Post by ConcernedCoder » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #131

Let's be clear, the free market this is not. It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. It's one thing for to use taxpayer monies to create jobs and job opportunity (i.e., education). That's a reasonable expectation within the scope of gov's governing. However, it's another thing for gov to buy jobs - and thus votes - by effectively subsidizing some mega-corporation. If Amazon needs money, that's what…

Wisconsin spends 4 billion in tax breaks to attract a Taiwanese manufacturer ( FoxConn ) and nobody bats an eye...

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#200

Post by newsf » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 12:20 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #196

chiefalchemist wrote: post #131

Let's be clear, the free market this is not. It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. It's one thing for to use taxpayer monies to create jobs and job opportunity (i.e., education). That's a reasonable expectation within the scope of gov's governing. However, it's another thing for gov to buy jobs - and thus votes - by effectively subsidizing some mega-corporation. If Amazon needs money, that's what…

It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. I like how you tacitly acknowledge the large corporate entity shares a little responsibility in there at the end. Yes, this is a government failure but it is also the logic of capitalism at work, which says that money should come before all other considerations. Government is rather corrupt, but it is business that has corrupted it.

> Yes, this is a government failure but it is also the logic of capitalism at work, which says that money should come before all other considerations.

It does? I'm pretty sure it's just a system of allocating resources.