Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

fox5ny.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 359 posts

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#91

Post by lamp_book »

killyp wrote: post #73
anonyppppp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast." This has long ago been cemented...

I wouldn't say that at all. NYC is definitely large for tech on the East Coast but so is Boston in tech R&D, DC for government related tech companies, and Research Triangle in NC and Austin TX (if this counts as East Coast) are both hotbeds for tech startups. There really is no Bay Area equivalent on the East Coast.

Sorry to be inflammatory but in what world is Austin, TX considered East Coast?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#92

Post by JumpCrisscross »

metildaa wrote: post #58
cycrutchfield wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They elected the people that made that decision. If they don't like it, they can vote them out. Citing an example of some Berliner NIMBYs is not really helping your argument.

> They elected the people that made that decision. If they don't like it, they can vote them out. It seems you didn't read my prior comment, some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in. > Citing an example of some Berliner NIMBYs is not really helping your argument. It shows how a community can fight back. Much of the change mega-corps bring to the neighborhoods and cities they set up shop in is n…

> some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in

The opposition to an almost-done deal is almost always louder than the support. Supporters want to keep the status quo, i.e. the deal closing. Opposers want to stop it.

I think this is a good deal. I prefer having Amazon in New York, and I prefer the billions of extra tax dollars they're going to pay New York City and Albany versus potentially losing those dollars to another city, state or country. I'm not making a lot of noise because I think the Mayor and Governor have it handled.

TL; DR I don't think one can assume popular opposition to this deal.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#93

Post by lambdasquirrel »

Maybe some context would be appropriate. New York has been trying to diversify beyond finance for a long time. The cost per employee is amortized, as stated by others, but it’s almost moot — as if it were a hedge.

Amazon has a rep for not retaining many of its engies beyond a year or two. Perhaps the hope is that those folks will go on and bootstrap a real startup economy. NY already has a Google and FB office. Two is interesting but three and you start to have a pattern.

If you ask me, it’s worth the bet. $1-2B is cheap change on this level of macroeconomics.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#94

Post by mancerayder »

metildaa wrote: post #5

Perhaps the citizens should object, I hear one of their congress critters is shitposting on twitter to that end. If the locals don't want their lives upended by gentrification, Berlin has shown a good example of how to block uninvited expansion by tech giants: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45971538

Long Island City was already rezoned, luxury housing built and gentrified. 20k workers in a city of 8.5m isn't upending a small, vulnerable community. And we're not the commuter suburbs, an office in Long Island City is not very much different from an office building in Manhattan.

Gentrification concerns are thus overblown, and our local pols are known for dramatizations like these for political gain (at least on camera/Twitter, less so when it comes to campaign support and backroom lobbying deals).

The controversy is in the tax incentives primarily.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#95

Post by ng12 »

CPLX wrote: post #85
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

Seriously. Google owns the fourth largest building in NYC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111_Eighth_Avenue

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#96

Post by Apocryphon »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #92
metildaa wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They elected the people that made that decision. If they don't like it, they can vote them out. It seems you didn't read my prior comment, some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in. > Citing an example of some Berliner NIMBYs is not really helping your argument. It shows how a community can fight back. Much of the change mega-corps bring to the neighborhoods and cities they set up shop in is n…

> some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in The opposition to an almost-done deal is almost always louder than the support. Supporters want to keep the status quo , i.e. the deal closing. Opposers want to stop it. I think this is a good deal. I prefer having Amazon in New York, and I prefer the billions of extra tax dollars they're going to pay New York City and Albany versus potentially losing…

Probably the best way to gauge the support/opposition was to put this deal into a city-wide referendum to begin with.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#97

Post by FooHentai »

rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

>I dont know where that comes from but

That's key then isn't it. Where it's going to come from needs to be clear, or else there's a very real risk it's not a good deal.

Sales pitches stack the deck on expected benefits ALL the time. Diligence is essential here, and the devil is always in the details. 'Potential benefit' rapidly morphs to 'definite benefit' when stuff percolates up into articles etc.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#98

Post by jondubois »

CPLX wrote: post #85
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

>> This giveaway is a goddamm travesty. How about instead, Cuomo gives me and any other startup founder who's been in Brooklyn or Queens for decades $48,000 for every job we've created and we tell Amazon to go fuck themselves.

So true. The rent in NYC is already very high. What kind of lifestyle can a blue collar worker afford in NYC? Obviously the only winners here are corrupt politicians and greedy Amazon execs. They should all be jailed.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#99

Post by [deleted] »

Apocryphon wrote: post #96
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some of their elected officials are opposed to Amazon moving in The opposition to an almost-done deal is almost always louder than the support. Supporters want to keep the status quo , i.e. the deal closing. Opposers want to stop it. I think this is a good deal. I prefer having Amazon in New York, and I prefer the billions of extra tax dollars they're going to pay New York City and Albany versus potentially losing…

Probably the best way to gauge the support/opposition was to put this deal into a city-wide referendum to begin with.

[deleted]

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#100

Post by commandlinefan »

metildaa wrote: post #5

Perhaps the citizens should object, I hear one of their congress critters is shitposting on twitter to that end. If the locals don't want their lives upended by gentrification, Berlin has shown a good example of how to block uninvited expansion by tech giants: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45971538

I'm not sure what they're complaining about - they keep electing representatives who promise high taxes. Now they're getting high taxes, they should be happy?
Post reply on HN