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Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

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Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#131
I patched my firmware and installed GalliumOS[0], which is basically a tweaked version of Ubuntu. I was previously using crouton[1], which functions similarly[3] to Crostini. On ChromeOS, I was using the Cloud9 Web IDE (which has since become an Amazon service), and on the Crouton/GalliumOS side of things I've been using ST2/3, but have essentially switched completely to SpaceVim[3].

ChromeOS is fine for web development, except that it started killing tabs after you open ten or more. I liked Cloud9 for the most part, particularly that it saved its state all the time: you could close your browser window, and come back to that project a few days later, and all of the same files would be open, and any terminal commands still running.

Both NetBeans and Atom were painfully slow, regardless of system configuration.

Switching to a docker-centric (i.e. HDD-heavy) workflow has meant switching to a remote server -- for now, a VPS, at least until I get my local server a new HDD. So ChromeOS is perfect for my needs, in that it has a full-color terminal with ssh, and a web browser for documentation. However, that's kind of a low bar. On the plus side, ChromeOS is quite secure. On the minus side, it's not "real" Linux in some relevant senses. Auto-updating is nice, and also being able to unbox a new machine, sign in, and automatically have your local apps and files start appearing. Heavy Google Apps integration is probably more of a feature than not. However, the rate at which the OS would kill tabs (including the terminal!) made the system quite unpleasant to use. Yes, the problem here is me: the hardware can't easily handle a large number of tabs, and it's a perfectly valid decision to kill tabs quickly rather than let the system become unresponsive. Probably it was even mostly effective at that. Probably a better-spec'd machine would have fewer memory issues. However, I have consistently gone to considerable lengths to avoid using ChromeOS: replacing the firmware requires disassembly and the removal of an internal screw, and risks bricking the machine. Enabling developer mode prevents the system from booting normally: instead, a white screen appears after power-on which says something like "Press spacebar to restore ChromeOS". I believe that it does let you know that this will wipe the user partition, after you've started. It does not tell you the key combination required to boot the machine. Loaning out a Chromebook in developer mode is therefore not recommended.

I'm shopping for a replacement for the chromebook I'm typing this on. It cost $115, I've used it for a couple years, the second power cord seems to be giving up, and the screen is partially held together with electrical tape: I think it gives it a bit of character. I've had at least two other (cheap) Chromebooks before this. I don't think I'm in the market for another. At the moment, I'm probably looking for a (Linux) Dell XPS 13, or similar: I would appreciate any suggestions.

  [0] https://galliumos.org/
  [1] https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton
  [2] https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton#what-about-dem-crostinis-though
  [3] https://spacevim.org/

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can definitely use Ubuntu without it having to "phone home". That is probably not the case for Chrome OS. By the way, interesting thing is that for Google employees, it is explicitly forbidden to use software that phones home (read that a while back, can't find the link, sorry).

> You can definitely use Ubuntu without it having to "phone home". How do you know? You're assuming they aren't phoning home, probably because it's open source, but you've probably never verified it. And you're unlikely to be enforcing that or proactively monitoring it. So how do you know an update didn't change the rules? You don't. You just have trust. And you can equally use Chrome OS with the same level of trust…

The problem is incentives. Ubuntu has no incentive to take your information. Google has. That means that even if you change the settings, you don't know if they will ask you in some obscure dialog box to turn it back on, etc. Or they will say "you upgraded, but you didn't turn off the setting again? that's your fault then". Sneaky tricks like this are happening all the time. Only if the incentives are right I can begin to trust that they will not abuse my information.

And if Ubuntu starts to abuse my trust for some reason, I will switch to a different distribution. I can already say that I don't like that Amazon shopping logo in the Unity interface.

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#133
Some counterpoints -

- Crostini is only for a limited set of Chromebooks. I have an Acer 15 with Intel Broadwell, which is extremely powerful and not that old, but Google won't support it for whatever insane reason they might have

- Chromebook keyboard is lacking. You cannot program without a del key

- They aren't cheap. Only the low end low powered 2GB models are and they are unusable, as well as not supported by Crostini. For this kind of money I can get a Windows laptop with almost equiv battery life

- or even better, a used Thinnkpad + Linux which would be better than almost anything for 1/2 the cost.

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#134
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you can point me to instrumentation on ChromeOS that I should be concerned with, I'm going to not assume that "all of my data" is going to Google.

Thing is, whether its ChromeOS or Windows, you are not allowed to look at what exactly they are sending or not sending, and you literally sign a contract saying that they can collect whatever they want and use it however they want. Google has a history of downright ignoring your privacy setting for the benefit of getting more data. And they are aggressively trying to associate you with more devices. It's also not eve…

> you are not allowed to look at what exactly they are sending or not sending

What? I can absolutely look at network traffic on my device. People do this... all the time. There are plenty of reports of Chrome traffic - many of them being people mistakenly believing that Chrome is doing something malicious when it isn't.

I don't believe that Google is incentivized to use host-based instrumentation to do their collection. The cost is quite high for them to do that. Much easier for them to rely on Google Analytics, Search, and various other web-based tracking mechanisms.

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#135
post #5

I'm thinking of getting a Chromebook for dev work, with the view of just using it as a dumb client for terminals and browser to cloud servers. I'm worried I'll buy then wish I bought a proper machine. Anyone thought the same then regretted it?

My suggestion right now(from a Mac user), is a Windows 10 machine with the Linux subsystem installed. You'll have an entire Linux environment integrated into Windows, giving you the best of both worlds. Supported software, hardware, and your natural development environment. Honestly, I'm weary of moving anything to Google with their track record of just abandoning projects, and privacy concerns.

Remind me, what's best about the Windows world again? Games?

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can definitely use Ubuntu without it having to "phone home". How do you know? You're assuming they aren't phoning home, probably because it's open source, but you've probably never verified it. And you're unlikely to be enforcing that or proactively monitoring it. So how do you know an update didn't change the rules? You don't. You just have trust. And you can equally use Chrome OS with the same level of trust…

Google have actually been fined for circumventing privacy settings more than once . In addition to the civil penalty, the order also requires Google to disable all the tracking cookies it had said it would not place on consumers’ computers. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2012/08/googl... https://venturebeat.com/2013/11/18/google-privacy-settlement...

Google made no promises on that setting. Apple offered a setting, failed to implement it properly, and Google got fined for it. That's what happened there.

But regardless what clearly did not happen in that case is Google violating one of Google's own settings. Which is what we're talking about here - the settings Chrome offers being violated. There's no evidence of that.

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can definitely use Ubuntu without it having to "phone home". How do you know? You're assuming they aren't phoning home, probably because it's open source, but you've probably never verified it. And you're unlikely to be enforcing that or proactively monitoring it. So how do you know an update didn't change the rules? You don't. You just have trust. And you can equally use Chrome OS with the same level of trust…

The problem is incentives. Ubuntu has no incentive to take your information. Google has. That means that even if you change the settings, you don't know if they will ask you in some obscure dialog box to turn it back on, etc. Or they will say "you upgraded, but you didn't turn off the setting again? that's your fault then". Sneaky tricks like this are happening all the time. Only if the incentives are right I can beg…

> Ubuntu has no incentive to take your information.

Of course they do, money. Why else do you think they sold out to Amazon and sent them all your search data? https://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-li...

What's the old saying, "if you didn't pay for it you are the product"?

How much does Ubuntu cost again? Oh, right, you don't pay for it.

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#138

I once had plans to do dev work on a chromebook. I even installed gallium on one. BUT,the biggest problem for me is the keyboard and missing a bunch of essential keys.

Not having proper function keys means it's faulty by design for me, or can I remap those Chromebook keys to f keys somehow?

Re: Chrome OS: Ready for Web Development [video]

#140
I was excited by this prospect mainly because of battery life, but I have a recent Thinkpad and with Ubuntu 18.10 battery life is quite good, even though I have 32GB and a zillion tabs open. This i7 Thinkpad is more expandable and serviceable and still cost less. Probably some of the improvements are due to ChromeOS Kernel improvements, so thanks for that!
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