Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
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Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
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Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#2I remember hearing about this on the radio when it was first proposed and passed. Very controversial. Drivers were PO'ed and transit users rejoiced.
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#3Buffalo tried this a few decades ago and it did NOT work. The entire area died, all the restaurants & retail closed. It took millions of dollars and many years to undo it and now the area is back and full of people. I don't know for sure the blame lies entirely on the clearing of cars idea, but that sure didn't help. The city (like many) fell pretty hard for a bunch of reasons at the time they tried this.
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#4I lived along there (king & bathurst) for a couple of months last winter and thought it was great. Combined with the new street cars along king st it's really pleasant.
At the time r/toronto would have people complaining about a lack of pedestrians or whatever (it was -20 every day for like a month) but that didn't really jive with my experience. Even in the really cold nights I found that there were a good number of people walking around.
that said I can't really speak to the experience of someone trying to drive in that area, but driving in toronto is horrible to begin with so I don't know what people expect.
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#5Buffalo tried this a few decades ago and it did NOT work. The entire area died, all the restaurants & retail closed. It took millions of dollars and many years to undo it and now the area is back and full of people. I don't know for sure the blame lies entirely on the clearing of cars idea, but that sure didn't help. The city (like many) fell pretty hard for a bunch of reasons at the time they tried this. https://www…
Likely differences in population density caused the different results
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#6I live in Toronto. Traffic on King Street has improved dramatically, and streetcars roll through smoothly. Quoting from the article to make things clear:
> Using painted jersey barriers and other low-cost materials, the pilot prohibited through car and truck traffic.
Cars are allowed to drive on short segments of King Street, but not allowed to go straight through major intersections. So this means they need to right turn after 200 m or so.
Official web site: https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/planning-development/...
Road diagrams: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/8ead-King-... ; https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/968e-Polic...
Options discussed during the proposal phase: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/97f6-Main-... ; https://www.slideshare.net/CityPlanTO/king-street-pilot-publ... ; https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/programs/metromorning... ; http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/02/city-presents-options-ki...
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#7The king cars are a little bit faster. And it's just one street so it's not the end of the world or anything. Overall it seemed to me like the effects were pretty... meh. I used the King streetcar very regularly before and after the project, and honestly, it was acceptable the whole time.
I think you'd have to ask the (great, if trappy) restaurants and boutiques west of Spadina about the effect on their finances. I know a lot of their customers arrived by car before, and many by limousine or other specialty vehicle.
To be clearer than the post is, they did not actually shut out cars on the King street, they made through traffic unlawful* . The distinction between these things is pretty huge.
If you go by the financials given in this blog post, it is clear that the businesses have lost money on this deal. 0.3% is slower than typical gross receipts growth for these shops AFAIK. A 0.3% growth in gross receipts over about twelve months means you're losing to inflation.
I know Angie Schmitt loves rapid transit just as much as all of us, but being too optimistic about transit-focused developments, and too credulous with the claims of politicians and wannabe technocrats is a sure way to ruin people's lives in exchange for phantom glory.
* though taxis, as with most laws in Toronto, don't bother to follow the law because they know the police don't bother to police traffic in the city almost ever
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#8From Toronto here, and just wanted to clarify that the headline is somewhat misleading in claiming that "it worked". Article begins:
> One year after Toronto turned King Street in a transit- and walking-priority street, streetcar ridership, biking and walking are way up.
What "worked" is that removing cars did indeed make space for faster streetcars and biking - but this is not surprising, practically a truism!
The purpose of doing a pilot was see if the trade-off is worth it in real life. Worse traffic congestion for cars in the downtown core in exchange for a fast street for transit and bikes. It will be interesting to see what the city decides.
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#9Buffalo tried this a few decades ago and it did NOT work. The entire area died, all the restaurants & retail closed. It took millions of dollars and many years to undo it and now the area is back and full of people. I don't know for sure the blame lies entirely on the clearing of cars idea, but that sure didn't help. The city (like many) fell pretty hard for a bunch of reasons at the time they tried this. https://www…
Part of the problem in Buffalo was that they closed main st for 5-6 years to car traffic in the late 70s / early 80s while they built the above-ground portion of the metro rail. During this time, business along the construction zone withered and died because they were too hard to get to, and the department stores retreated to the suburban malls. By the time they finished it, there was no reason to go there, except to transit through that section on the way to Sabers games / concerts at Memorial Auditorium.
Re: Toronto Cleared Cars Off a Major Transit Corridor
#10I live in Toronto and the pilot project remains a very controversial decision basically pitting the interests of commuters against car drivers in what is for all intents and purposes a zero-sum game.
The next question is whether there's a solution where everyone wins and the most immediate idea is a subway running down that corridor. Of course, the amount of disruption that would bring to businesses already crying foul over the pilot project is a tough pill for any politician to swallow. Ultimately this is a lesson in failed urban planning as a subway built there decades ago before all the condos went up in this city would have alleviated issues for everyone involved.