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Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

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Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#91
post #53
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sustainable high-temperature plasma is what we need to create fusion as an energy source. Current fusion processes rely on pulsing a very short instant of high temperature. This creates a brief instance of fusion, but takes heaps more energy than that quick moment of fusion releases. Thus, it's a net negative of energy. One way to do this that the US uses for nuclear weapons research is to zap a small bit of gas with…

ITER will never produce electric energy but they plan to achieve Q=5, ie, output 5 times more energy than put in. The more important work on ITER is work around enabling actual power stations using Q=5 and developing the tech to maintain operating fusion reactors (remote robots, etc.)

At that point can't you just store the output current in supercapacitors for later use anyway? You can even feed it into the machine itself. Supercapacitors easily have better than 20% efficiency for each cycle.

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#92

The main challenge in working with these high temperature plasmas is confinement. In order to achieve nuclear fusion matter needs to be heated to immense temperature, so that the kinetic energy of nuclei colliding can overcome the electrostatic force of the protons pushing each other away and "fuse" into larger nuclei (held together by the "strong force"), converting a fraction of the reaction mass into a relatively…

With confinement being the challenge, wouldn't duration of the containment at those temperatures be important too?

I see Wendelstein 7-x is attempting 30 minute burns soon https://www.ipp.mpg.de/4413312/04_18?c=4313165

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy or relatively easy? They still need to pump in enough energy to get it up to a 10 million degree (if not more) temperature.

Fusion can be made in your living room: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor

Wait, I have to reconfigure my bitcoin mining rigs to gold mining.

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#94
post #82
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 'we' I meant every country that's involved, not just my own country. $60bn is actually surprisingly little for research that could change the future of energy production and possibly society as we know it. To put it into context, the Apollo program cost $200bn in today's money and a high speed train between LA and SF is projected to cost $100bn.

And the war in Iraq $1 trillion :(

$1 trillion is not a lot of money for the US. the Congressional Budget Office estimates that interest spending on US public debt will hit $915 billion in 2028[1].

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-on-a-course-to-spend-more-o...

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#95

A tokamak is a kind of fusion reactor, and basically the most prevalent. "100M degrees" (Kelvin) corresponds to 10 KeV (kilo electron volts), which is an important figure to exceed for D-T fusion. D-T fusion which is the kind of fusion the ITER Tokamak (a forthcoming fusion reactor and international megaproject) intends to demonstrate. An older fusion experiment, JET (Joint European Torus) reached these levels, so th…

> "100M degrees" (Kelvin)

Off topic, but this distinction made me laugh. Like the difference between Kelvin and Celsius would throw everything off.

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#96
post #90

Can someone comment on what kind of economic effect that working fusion reactor technology would have? I hear sometimes contradictory hear-say on the lines of "unlimited energy", "reactor would have to be fed constantly".

One liter of ordinary seawater would still produce as much energy in a fusion reaction as 500 liters of fossil fuels in a chemical reaction.

— random guy on Quora

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-limited-amount-of-fuel-for-...

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#97
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calling 2033 highly unlikely would be an understatement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER : ”Initial plasma experiments are scheduled to begin in 2025, with full deuterium–tritium fusion experiments starting in 2035.” So, according to Wikipedia, DEMO will build on ITER’s results, but will produce energy before ITER’s first real fusion experiment starts.

If global warming will be more significant then is predicted now I believe they will suddenly invest 100x more into this technology. This and nuclear plants are only reasonable way how to have available energy for some 'CO2 removal' projects...

Is money more limiting than time though? Nine woman and a child analogy comes to mind.

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#98
post #95

A tokamak is a kind of fusion reactor, and basically the most prevalent. "100M degrees" (Kelvin) corresponds to 10 KeV (kilo electron volts), which is an important figure to exceed for D-T fusion. D-T fusion which is the kind of fusion the ITER Tokamak (a forthcoming fusion reactor and international megaproject) intends to demonstrate. An older fusion experiment, JET (Joint European Torus) reached these levels, so th…

> "100M degrees" (Kelvin) Off topic, but this distinction made me laugh. Like the difference between Kelvin and Celsius would throw everything off.

Well, there is almost certainly somebody that read the number and thought about Fahrenheit.

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy or relatively easy? They still need to pump in enough energy to get it up to a 10 million degree (if not more) temperature.

Fusion can be made in your living room: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor

Great design. I have a friend who took it a bit further, and build the Fusor with Lego bricks. Never since any worries about energy bills, he went completely off the grid!

Re: Chinese Tokamak reaches over 100M degrees

#100
post #67

As there seems to be quite a lot of confusion in this thread about what this is, here's an excellent video giving an overview of the state of the art in fusion energy research that is understandable by a lay audience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0KuAx1COEk (somebody posted that video on another recent HN fusion thread)

Thank you for (re)posting that video, it's an excellent introduction/overview.
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