Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#131

Post by claydavisss » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82

schnevets wrote: post #38

As a New Yorker, I am super disappointed that they chose Long Island City. There were contenders where this stimulus could have been a paradigm shift. Instead, it's just a drop in the bucket for a city that is already growing recklessly. My vote was for Newark, personally. Plenty of office space; access to NJIT, Rutgers, and Princeton; and good public transit that connects directly into NYC. Bezos and co. could have…

> I am super disappointed that they chose Long Island City Edward Glaeser's research on the economic and social benefits from density, summarized in Triumph of the City [1] and referenced in this guy's videos [2][3], is worth reviewing. Long story short, agglomeration breeds efficiencies which lead to further agglomeration. New York can uniquely offer things other cities can't because of its density. A few thousand p…

If this were necessarily true - that all industries would naturally gravitate to the regions of highest density - then why is so much of the banking industry now in North Carolina?

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#132

Post by Ericson2314 » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

zjaffee wrote: post #93

SippinLean wrote: post #12

> Long Island City is a mixed-use community where arts and industry intersect It's mostly empty warehouses, housing projects, and luxury condos. There's very little in terms of culture or even basic needs, like grocery stores. > Long Island City has some of the best transit access in New York City, with 8 subway lines, 13 bus lines, commuter rail, a bike-sharing service, and ferries serving the area Realistically it'…

Considering Amazon helped pay for the South Lake Union streetcar, I imagine that this announcement will expedite the approvals for and the construction of the BQX street car.

Amazon should pay for putting that underground instead.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#133

Post by throwaway2048 » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

prolikewh0a wrote: post #29

Cyclone_ wrote: post #19

Can't believe how many subsidies they got, to me it's a question of fairness, why should we subsidize them, but not others? I get that they are doing the community a service by creating high paying jobs, but there certainly have been negative sides to what they've done (gentrification, poor working conditions for many employees in their warehouses).

They're doing the community a service by creating high paying jobs? The people will be shipped in from all around the world and displace the current communities. This destroys communities. This segregates poor & lower income people out. Only already rich people get to experience the benefits of this. The subsidies and tax cuts they got are an embarrassment to our system and a wonderful look into how this country isn'…

This mentality that we should be thankful for "job creators" is incredibly toxic. Amazon hiring people because it benefits their bottom line, its not a charity, skip the "community service" crap.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#134

Post by dmode » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

isaacdl wrote: post #8

Wouldn't you call two new offices that are smaller than the headquarters "satellite offices"? It really does feel like Amazon successfully played a lot of municipalities against each other to try and extract the biggest concessions, knowing all along that it didn't make sense to try and hire 50000 people in a decade in any one location. I know that's how the game is played, but it's still feels a little disingenuous.

This is exactly right. It is a sattelite office. And I am very skeptical of the 25k jobs number they are putting out. Especially if these are technical roles. This would amount to hiring 2k engineers a year.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#135

Post by addicted » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #116

noer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even then, assuming 15k jobs in New York is $75MM/yr, which is a lot of money.

That's nothing. Especially for a place like New York. Consider, in Wisconsin, we have to pay on the order of roughly USD400M to USD500M per year, for about the next ten years. And we're a state that, compared to New York, is mired in abject poverty. And to add insult to injury, that USD400M per year is for only HALF the jobs that New York is getting. And they don't pay as well. Yeah, not a good time to be a Wisconsin…

Wisconsin also doesn’t have corporate taxes so a lot of the Foxconn benefits were structured as direct payments rather than tax breaks.

And many weren’t even dependent on Foxconn employing a certain number of people, which is why now that their plans have scaled down the numbers look disastrous.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#136

Post by mtberatwork » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

basseq wrote: post #98

mikeash wrote: post #3

What the heck is “National Landing”? I’ve lived in this area for over a decade and that’s the first time I’ve heard the name.

I'm skeptical at the choice of Crystal City. (Sorry, that's where it is, call it what you want.) I think being "urban" mattered a lot to them, and Crystal City has the most opportunity for a significant tenant to move in. But that "opportunity" is there because it's a secondary or tertiary choice for employers. Considering that 70%+ people are commuters, a) there are more desirable locations no matter where you're co…

Agreed, Crystal City is a terrible choice if you are trying to attract talent in the DMV. Who wants to make that commute? Not sure why they didn't choose Dulles - more space, new metro infrastructure, Dulles airport access and existing AWS offices and data centers.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#137

Post by mo1ok » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

nickdandakis wrote: post #51

ghaff wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "interesting" thing about that location is that it actually isn't especially especially convenient for commutes to/from places where young well-paid techies would normally choose to live.

Out of curiosity, where do you think young well-paid techies live in the city? Because I'm a young well-paid techie, and I live off of the G line in Brooklyn, which this move would definitely affect.

Greenpoint, bushwick, wburg, bed-study, park slope, Clinton hill, LES.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#138

Post by Johnny555 » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

screye wrote: post #87

isaacdl wrote: post #8

Wouldn't you call two new offices that are smaller than the headquarters "satellite offices"? It really does feel like Amazon successfully played a lot of municipalities against each other to try and extract the biggest concessions, knowing all along that it didn't make sense to try and hire 50000 people in a decade in any one location. I know that's how the game is played, but it's still feels a little disingenuous.

> Wouldn't you call two new offices that are smaller than the headquarters "satellite offices"? Not quite. Amazon has satellite offices, that employ an order of magnitude fewer employees. At 25k/branch, the term "regional headquarters" can be considered justified. They did game the system though. Feels like they negotiated tax benefits with 50k employees in mind, and kept the same benefits while only giving locations…

They did game the system though. Feels like they negotiated tax benefits with 50k employees in mind, and kept the same benefits while only giving locations 25k each.

If that's what happened, that's poor negotiation by the cities. If they made an offer based on employee counts, they could have required employee targets in return for the benefits being offered.

And if Amazon refuses to make firm employee count guarantees in return for the benefits being offered, then that's a pretty strong signal that you shouldn't rely on their promises.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#139

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #99

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you just an Amazon shill who jumps in to try and suppress any criticism of them? No, I'm not. Are you the kind of commenter who accuses everyone who disagrees with you of being a shill, so that you can control the conversation? (There's at least as much evidence of that than there is of me being a shill...)

There have been stories about this for months. It's reasonable to assume that most people reading and commenting on them are familiar with the history of this long running story and the well publicized last minute change in the terms of the agreement by Amazon in the last week. If you are honestly unaware of this and need it explained to you, then in the future take some time to familiarize yourself with the context…

I was rather careful not to insult you. I merely said that your style resembled that of obsessive ranters and nut cases; I didn't accuse you of being one.

You came at least as close to being insulting as I did. In the future, take some time to familiarize yourself with peoples' posting history before you jump in and question whether they are shills.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#140

Post by alehul » Tue, Nov 13, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

Why do we give Amazon subsidies but not small businesses, who altogether provide over 50% of the jobs in America? The reason, as I understand it, is because Amazon as a single corporate entity provides far more jobs and holds more power.

Following that: Wouldn't the small businesses, due to our anti-trust regulations, actually be considered a cartel if they tried to negotiate as a group and gain the same tax advantages that Amazon has?

So, with that in mind, don't we have some very arbitrary laws? If I could buy up a few small businesses and negotiate with them as pawns, but without a common owner, it's anti-trust behavior?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this; IANAL, but would love to hear someone's opinion. Though game theory would likely prevent their continued cooperation, it seems quite unfair for small businesses that are unable, even in theory, to collectively negotiate on the same scale as Amazon.