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Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

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Re: Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

#31
post #18

Oracle Database 12.2. It is close to 25 million lines of C code. What an unimaginable horror! You can't change a single line of code in the product without breaking 1000s of existing tests. Generations of programmers have worked on that code under difficult deadlines and filled the code with all kinds of crap. Very complex pieces of logic, memory management, context switching, etc. are all held together with thousand…

Fingers crossed that there are no merge conflicts & conflicting tests.

Re: Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

#33
From 10+ years ago when I worked at PayPay, webscr (the frontend at the time, where you'd log in) was a total of 2GB of C++ that would get compiled into a 1GB CGI executable, deployed over some ~700+ web servers.

Debug versions would never get compiled, as I'm told the resulting file was too large for the filesystem to handle.

Apparently a great deal of the code was actually inline XML.

They knew this was a bad pile of technical debt, too: at one point, a senior/staff engineer gave a company presentation where they brought a fanfold printout of the main header file for this monstrosity, and literally unrolled it across the entire stage.

Re: Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

#34
post #9

I'm guessing by bad, you mean ugly. I'm fairly convinced there is no "good" code, or that it's such a minuscule subset that you'll never likely encounter it in your career. Every year I look back on last years stuff I've written, and I can find ten ways to clean things up. In my opinion, if it works, and provides the utility it was designed to bring, then it doesn't matter. If it makes money, then who really cares!

>I'm guessing by bad, you mean ugly. ... In my opinion, if it works, and provides the utility it was designed to bring, then it doesn't matter. If it makes money, then who really cares!

"Ugly" is subjective; I'd define "bad code" as "difficult to reason about". If you're introducing someone new to the project, how long do they have to stare at it until they can grok it? Good code is code that makes sense, where things are documented and clearly named and encapsulated and have a flow that makes them understandable.

This doesn't necessarily mean it isn't ugly. Often, it's uglier than "clever code" which does something succinctly but less obviously.

Re: Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

#36
post #18

Oracle Database 12.2. It is close to 25 million lines of C code. What an unimaginable horror! You can't change a single line of code in the product without breaking 1000s of existing tests. Generations of programmers have worked on that code under difficult deadlines and filled the code with all kinds of crap. Very complex pieces of logic, memory management, context switching, etc. are all held together with thousand…

Good lord, just reading it can cause panic attack.

Re: Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

#37
My first job was sysadmin of a third tier ISP back in the dialup days. The account management and provisioning system that ran EVERYTHING was probably close to 100k lines of csh. Everything was done via a UI that the shell generated as a sort of curses-style interface.

What was horrible about it was that it controlled everything from who got a website, active domains, what POPs users could dial into, metered billing, you name it. And it did all of this by manipulating flat files of pipe-delimited data on a central server, then rcp’ing those files to the various machines, then rsh’ing to the various machines and kicking off THEIR scripts, which parsed the source files and generated their own files, which called another set of scripts that parsed THOSE files and generated the software config files.

This included doing things like updating init scripts so that new IPs got added to interfaces, and what email server a user was provisioned on, so it had to generate new exim configr with routing rules.

All this to say that it all worked, but I dreaded having to go in to manipulate anything. Adding a server at least had a dedicated procedure so that was fine, but anything else was a nightmare.

Case in point - as part of a gradual plan to remove this nightmare, I swapped out the radius server that they were using for one that could support a database backend, and modified the local config generator script to make a new config for the new software as a stopgap until I could get it into a database.

The config file had a series of fields that just had numbers in them, and after much digging, it seemed like that controlled whether a terminal dial in user was presented with a menu of options, and what options. I had to reimplement that logic for the new software, made a mistake, and accidentally removed the option for UUCP for the 10 customers that were still using UUCP. One of them was on an ISDN line and their mailer decided to continuously redial looking for the UUCP, tacking up thousands of dollars in carrier rate charges for the weekend that it took anyone to notice something was broken.

Re: Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

#38
A web application written in C++ before there was the STL or many libraries written for C++... in 2007 or so. It was probably 200k LOC or so of CGI application code, libraries to render PDFs, manage a filesystem of XML files, an XML parser... none of it documented or tested.

The developer who was leaving the company dropped a copy of Michael Feathers' Working Effectively with Legacy Code. There was a small amount of Python to wrap the API to the C++ code using Boost against which a small suite of unit and functional tests were being developed. I learned a lot on that project.

I never fully understood how the C++ code all worked but having that API interface in Python helped to grok parts of it (and eventually replace it with a few hundred lines of Python code at a time).

Re: Ask HN: What's the largest amount of bad code you have ever seen work?

#40
post #39

One of the startups I worked at had 3 frameworks in PHP - all grown, all messed up in all the wrong ways - and that was just the backend. We had a homegrown framework written in JQuery for the frontend as well. never Again.

And probably making a ton of money so biz didn't want to replace it.
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