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Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

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Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#81

Post by raiflip »

prolikewh0a wrote: post #29
Cyclone_ wrote: post #19

Can't believe how many subsidies they got, to me it's a question of fairness, why should we subsidize them, but not others? I get that they are doing the community a service by creating high paying jobs, but there certainly have been negative sides to what they've done (gentrification, poor working conditions for many employees in their warehouses).

They're doing the community a service by creating high paying jobs? The people will be shipped in from all around the world and displace the current communities. This destroys communities. This segregates poor & lower income people out. Only already rich people get to experience the benefits of this. The subsidies and tax cuts they got are an embarrassment to our system and a wonderful look into how this country isn'…

That's partially true. Not sure where you are from, but as opposed to places like San Francisco, NYC has a functioning real estate private sector that reacts rationally to increases in demand by increasing supply. This is not to say gentrification is not a thing, but it's not like in San Francisco where there's basically a set housing stock and new people completely displace the old people. Instead new people displace some of the old residents, but they also rent or buy newly built housing. In the long run Amazon's choice is probably good for nyc. It could be very good if nyc manages to get its act together regarding subway and infrastructure.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#82

Post by JumpCrisscross »

schnevets wrote: post #38

As a New Yorker, I am super disappointed that they chose Long Island City. There were contenders where this stimulus could have been a paradigm shift. Instead, it's just a drop in the bucket for a city that is already growing recklessly. My vote was for Newark, personally. Plenty of office space; access to NJIT, Rutgers, and Princeton; and good public transit that connects directly into NYC. Bezos and co. could have…

> I am super disappointed that they chose Long Island City

Edward Glaeser's research on the economic and social benefits from density, summarized in Triumph of the City [1] and referenced in this guy's videos [2][3], is worth reviewing. Long story short, agglomeration breeds efficiencies which lead to further agglomeration. New York can uniquely offer things other cities can't because of its density. A few thousand people moving to Newark (assuming they're willing to move to Newark) won't bring those benefits there.

Over centuries, despite population growth and political upheavals, the relative size of cities in almost every geographic region is remarkably stable. That hints at deeper mechanisms which can't be unseated by something as small as Amazon moving.

Better policy: give people in Newark the support they need to move to wherever they like, whether that still be in Newark or somewhere else.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/books/review/Silver-t.htm...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PWWtqfwacQ

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvAvHjYoLUU

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#83

Post by pc86 »

fooker wrote: post #26
tomschlick wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't you call two new offices that are smaller than the headquarters "satellite offices"? They could be divisional HQs, as in Alexa HQ'd in NYC and AWS in DC.

If they do that, that is eventually going to be used as ammunition for dismantling them.

Fine, I'll bite.

How?

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#84

Post by pastor_elm »

SippinLean wrote: post #12

> Long Island City is a mixed-use community where arts and industry intersect It's mostly empty warehouses, housing projects, and luxury condos. There's very little in terms of culture or even basic needs, like grocery stores. > Long Island City has some of the best transit access in New York City, with 8 subway lines, 13 bus lines, commuter rail, a bike-sharing service, and ferries serving the area Realistically it'…

MOMA PS1 is in LIC. I wouldn't call it culturally devoid.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#85

Post by cthalupa »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #17

This entire competition was an obvious sham to try to equivocate really desperate cities willing to give basically anything to have a major tech company headquarters, to the inevitable choice amazon was going to make of california or the coastal northeast, so they could extract maximum concessions. Its disgusting this worked as well as it did, $48k/job in tax concessions from NYC and $22k/job from VA, expect to see a…

>$48k/job/y in tax concessions from NYC and $22k/job/y

One of us is misunderstanding this - I am understanding it as 48k/job and 22k/job, not per year. 48,000*25,000 = 1.2 bil, if it was every year for 10 years, it would be 12 bil.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#86

Post by discodave »

devmunchies wrote: post #61
FiveSquared wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. Studen loasns are BS and it will help stop more traffic

not good. govt paying off student loans just makes them a sure bet and validates the behavior. Govt has the power to allow you to default, but why don't they?

Student debt is harder to discharge than other debts. You cant even discharge it through bankruptcy. One reason this was done was to reduce interest rates.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#87

Post by screye »

isaacdl wrote: post #8

Wouldn't you call two new offices that are smaller than the headquarters "satellite offices"? It really does feel like Amazon successfully played a lot of municipalities against each other to try and extract the biggest concessions, knowing all along that it didn't make sense to try and hire 50000 people in a decade in any one location. I know that's how the game is played, but it's still feels a little disingenuous.

> Wouldn't you call two new offices that are smaller than the headquarters "satellite offices"?

Not quite.

Amazon has satellite offices, that employ an order of magnitude fewer employees.

At 25k/branch, the term "regional headquarters" can be considered justified.

They did game the system though. Feels like they negotiated tax benefits with 50k employees in mind, and kept the same benefits while only giving locations 25k each.

This is good for tech in the east coast. Fin-tech firms WILL HAVE TO compete against Amazon for (supposed) west coast wages, and could help build a much stronger tech industry than NYC has atm.

Cornell tech much be so happy with their choice to open office on Roosevelt island. I can see them being the biggest winners out of this whole set of events. NYU is probably also happy, having acquired NYU poly a few years ago.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#88

Post by bsanr »

phoenixstrike wrote: post #27
Cyclone_ wrote: post #19

Can't believe how many subsidies they got, to me it's a question of fairness, why should we subsidize them, but not others? I get that they are doing the community a service by creating high paying jobs, but there certainly have been negative sides to what they've done (gentrification, poor working conditions for many employees in their warehouses).

How is gentrification negative?

Drives up rent.

Breaks up existing, stable (if often impoverished) communities.

Increased, concentrated development can have a negative environmental impact.

Re: Amazon Selects New York City and Northern Virginia for New Headquarters

#89

Post by JumpCrisscross »

noer wrote: post #50
rb808 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $48k/job in NY That is over 10 years, so is like $5k a year.

even then, assuming 15k jobs in New York is $75MM/yr, which is a lot of money.

> assuming 15k jobs in New York is $75MM/yr, which is a lot of money

They'll probably pay it back in payroll taxes. The subsidy effect is an unfair tipping of the scales in favor of large companies. But mass has its benefits. You can't renovate LIC in the hope that businesses will move there. An anchor employer underwrites infrastructure with broader social benefits without requiring the city to co-ordinate lots of smaller employers. (The follow-on question being, how do we make such co-ordination easier.)

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