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Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

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Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#191

Post by dunpeal »

bilbo0s wrote: post #168
thebradbain wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like I'm the resident Dallas apologist on these Amazon pieces, but Bezos is no stranger to Dallas. He has spoken fondly of Dallas many a time, just had the honor of speaking at SMU's Business Conference and offered personal anecdotes of why he likes Dallas, and, as Dallas Morning News has reported by tracking his flight records, been to Dallas many a time this year alone. Sure, maybe he doesn't own property…

Not to be "that guy", but I really do wonder whether there even were any serious "late stage" talks with any of these other cities? NYC is so obviously superior to every other location that you have to wonder whether there was any serious chance of anyone else actually getting the HQ2 at all? I mean, sure, DC can play both the government card, and the "Bezos loves us" card. But everyone else has no credible argument…

Texas has taxes a lot lower than NYC. Dallas is far cheaper to live in, too.

That's quite a difference. Even if Amazon gets tax breaks, its employees will not.

Dallas vs NYC is lowest vs highest income taxes in the nation.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#192

Post by tomcam »

jordache wrote: post #84
Aloha wrote: post #6

I feel this choice is a mistake for the company long term, they're putting resources into two very hot housing and real estate markets, that have no real draw (in my opinion) for technical employees. Hew York is high tax (compared to Washington), unpleasant weather, overall high costs, and has a housing shortage, Washington DC, once described has having "Southern Efficiency, and Northern Charm" has similar issues of…

nyc is a terrible place to live for a lot of people. i personally can not stand it. dirty city, terrible weather, and rude people.

Can you give me an example of the rudeness? I have visited New York city regulator from the last 35 years. I completely agree with the dirty part, and I suppose I agree with the weather part, but I have found that the people surprisingly open and hopeful for my entire life.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#193

Post by taysic »

bepotts wrote: post #188
sonnyblarney wrote: post #11

I'm saddened by this because it just adds to hyper concentration. DC is already woefully over staffed with overpaid folks living off of guaranteed tax revenues, I don't believe in the inherent productivity there, and just cynical enough to believe it's a means for AMZN to leverage political power and government contracts. NYC is understandable ... ... but it would have been really nice for business diversity for that…

I feel like not many places are willing to do the work in order to attract an Amazon; or better yet, foster an environment where one could build one organically. Too many pundits are trying to shame Amazon into moving to a city like Detroit or a city in the American heartland. But these areas are unattractive places for obvious reasons and it seems like Americans want to deny it. Want to attract an Amazon? Invest in…

This doesn't really explain why they didn't pick NJ or Boston which are liberal, well educated, incredibly diverse and multicultural. Also the sentiment of "reduce business regulations" goes together with conservative politics more often.

I also disagree that "nobody wants to move to a socially conservative place". CA, Florida, Colorado, Nevada are all examples of places that were conservative or still are but appear to be going through shifts as population moves there.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#194

Post by taysic »

bilbo0s wrote: post #156
abcdcba wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean there are a lot of economic reasons for that, right?

Yep. A company like Amazon will have some natural needs. No other city can really beat NYC for meeting those needs. Not Chicago. Not Toronto. Not Raleigh. Not Jersey. And certainly not Texas. By air, land, and sea the best and most bountiful transport links to the rest of the US, or to the Europe-Africa side of the world, are out of NYC. Now maybe we can change that? But we don't seem to be working towards changing i…

I think they could meet those needs elsewhere but they can be choosey so why not.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#195

Post by gcatalfamo »

SQL2219 wrote: post #49

Did the world’s smartest company really need 13 months, and applications from 238 cities, to reach the striking conclusion that it should invest in New York and D.C.? The former is America’s heart of capital, and the latter is America’s literal capital, where Jeff Bezos, chief executive of Amazon, already owns a house and a newspaper. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/amazons-hq...

Because that made them receive offers and tax cuts from city governments.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#196

Post by zjaffee »

bilbo0s wrote: post #119
wpietri wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa. Bezos indeed has homes in NYC and Washington DC. (As well as Seattle, Beverly Hills, and a ranch in Texas. [1]) I can't find it now, but years ago The Economist ran an article about a study that said a key factor in corporate headquarter moves was where the CEO lives. Disappointing to see it play out like that on such a grand scale, and after such a pretense of a nationwide search. Yet another thing that convin…

I think it may have been a factor with NoVA. But the logical place for HQ2 was always NYC. There was a large confluence of factors, but the two most important being logistics and access to a super-sized community of technology experts. (No other city can really match NYC's transport links, by air, land, or sea. So if you were going for the whole "sun never sets on the British Empire" thing, then it would almost have…

us-east-1 is the largest AWS region by far, and is located in northern VA. There are tons of employees already located nearby for this reason alone, among other AWS work that's already happening.

Additionally, public sector sales is a huge part of the business, and you need people in DC/VA in order to make that happen.

I doubt building a full HQ2 in Nova is possible, but a 40,000/10,000 split between the two places makes a ton of sense.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#197

Post by zjaffee »

dunpeal wrote: post #146
roymurdock wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average salary for these employees will be many x greater than the average NYC resident - you need to compare the relative size of the +25k employees to the ~200k subset of residents that make $200k+ in NY, not the entire 8M pop. Not to mention the knock-on effects of the many jobs the HQ will indirectly create - cleaning, food prep, waste mgmt, facilities, security, transportation, etc. But yes, I agree that NYC…

> The average salary for these employees will be many x greater than the average NYC resident - you need to compare the relative size of the +25k employees to the ~200k subset of residents that make $200k+ in NY, not the entire 8M pop. NYC isn't known for small salaries, partly because it's not easy to live in Manhattan on a small salary. A major industry in Manhattan is banking, and folks in investment banks pull sa…

200k is at the low/mid range of an SDE2 at Amazon, Amazon pays more competitively than people give them credit for, especially compared to the majority of firms competing for software engineers in NYC right now.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#198

Post by zjaffee »

syndacks wrote: post #135

What do you think this means for software engineering in NYC? IMO it's a good thing; more tech talent and the most legit tech company in NYC (besides maybe Google). But that about the tech economy and SE profession? What will the impact be? More demand for SEs, sure, and more SEs will be attracted to NYC too. These are all obvious first wave affects, but what will second, third wave affects be?

Could very easily trigger a switch that leads to NYC being the city with more second offices for Bay area companies than Seattle. And possibly over time, NYC gaining dominance in the tech industry beyond what the Bay Area has today.

The largest cities have historically always held dominance in every industry over the long tail, and I imagine that will ultimately be the case here too.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#199

Post by Larrikin »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #131
pratik661 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was one of those people. I moved to NYC in May. In a lot of adult sports leagues I'm meeting a surprisingly high number of developers who moved from the Bay Area to NYC. All for similar reasons. Its way more fun to spend your 20s in NY than it is in SF. Within my social circle, many more are planning on moving from SF to NY. This might be anecdata, but Google and Amazon might have recruiting data about candidates'…

“Fun” must be a bizarre elite perspective I’ve never understood either. The same stuff is available in Seattle as it is in NYC or Boston, just with an order of magnitude more people. Whenever I ask people about this they just talk about nightlife or something that I can’t relate to at all. I don’t know, maybe it’s because I didn’t hobnob with the well connected in college or “have fun” in college either.

In a large American city like Boston, Seattle, or even Chicago, I have access to a nice night life, good food, and plenty of nice museums. They're all great cities. When you consider them regionally.

In an internationally large city like NYC or Tokyo, I have all the access to local places that compete on the city and regional level, but with way more choices in that regard. But on top of that I have places that are competing internationally, as well as a large selection of the best other cities have to offer since there are so many people that move there from other places.

Its hard to get a sense for how amazingly convenient and awesome that is if you visit for a weekend or a week and haven't actually lived in a place like that.

Just going with food, maybe if you're ticking off a box that Seattle has a good ramen place you like somewhere in the city and NYC has one place you found that is as good. But theres a good chance there will be multiple places as good or better scattered all over the city in NYC vs the couple good places you like in Seattle.

Is there a new food trend somewhere else in the world? Its going to land pretty soon in Tokyo and if its more than just a flash trend you'll have a number of places competing that will be as good or even better soon enough. When I'm in Tokyo so long as I do a cursory look at the reviews, I know I'm going to get something good without having to go out my way, since the rents tend to put mediocre places out of business pretty fast unless they have a special circumstance surrounding them. If I am making a special trip for a restaurant in NYC, there's a really good chance I am getting something that can be considered some of the best in the world.

Re: Amazon expected to announce NYC and Northern Virginia as new headquarters

#200

Post by metildaa »

Latteland wrote: post #138
dangwu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that hard to imagine why someone would want to move from a mid-size tech city where you are often hated for where you work, to NYC.

People in Seattle don't hate amazon employees. I think engineers in Seattle feel sorry for them a little bit - it used to be a thing that no one knew anyone who had worked there more than 2 years (when the initial hire on bonus to cover the lower salary ran out and ended the clawbacks). Seattle has its pluses and minuses but it's got some serious differences than nyc.

Have you been into a Fred Meyer or QFC wearing Amazon branded attire? There are many people who would gleefully help kill Amazon in Seattle, especially those who are seeing their jobs ripped away from them and replaced with non-unionized work for lower pay in an abusive environment.
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