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Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

themarysue.com

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Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#31

Employee ownership is a very old concept. All studies have shown that they are risk averse and have poor growth. I’d love for this to work, but you can’t fantasize your way to results.

And how long-lasting are these companies? Do they fail at providing a steady income for their employees?

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#32

Employee ownership is a very old concept. All studies have shown that they are risk averse and have poor growth. I’d love for this to work, but you can’t fantasize your way to results.

Hacker News is an effective parody of itself.

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#33
post #30

Employee ownership is a very old concept. All studies have shown that they are risk averse and have poor growth. I’d love for this to work, but you can’t fantasize your way to results.

Both of those things sound very good. Corporate growth for the sake of growth is what got us to an atmospheric carbon dioxide level of 400PPM. If your idea of a company's success is how much profit it accrues, maybe it's time to question why it is you think that's a good thing.

Market failure got us to 400PPM. The externalities of carbon and methane pollution have not been properly priced in. That can be resolved with a market mechanism - a carbon tax.

The free market has also brought us widespread electric cars, solar panels, gas power plants. The very things with which we will combat climate change.

Socialism has brought us expanding populations globally, by offering free food to people who are not productive enough to buy it. The biggest threat to the planet now are the expanding populations of countries who still have their fertility rate above replacement rate.

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those things sound very good. Corporate growth for the sake of growth is what got us to an atmospheric carbon dioxide level of 400PPM. If your idea of a company's success is how much profit it accrues, maybe it's time to question why it is you think that's a good thing.

Market failure got us to 400PPM. The externalities of carbon and methane pollution have not been properly priced in. That can be resolved with a market mechanism - a carbon tax. The free market has also brought us widespread electric cars, solar panels, gas power plants. The very things with which we will combat climate change. Socialism has brought us expanding populations globally, by offering free food to people w…

If we're just going to attribute anything that happened during capitalism as a result of the "free market" then I get to say that communism invented satellites, discovered stem cells, and cured maternally transmitted HIV.

Electric cars and solar panels won't save us. You're not fooling anyone with that. Solar panels are not nearly efficient enough to replace anything major any time soon, and electric passenger cars will certainly help, but they are not hitting the pavement fast enough to have any kind of impact in the timelines we need to see to avoid apocalyptic catastrophe.

Also how will gas power plants help climate change? Unless this is a different use of the word 'gas' than i'm used to, I think you're referring to natural gas, aka: one of the largest contributor to carbon emissions.

And damn, I've heard a lot of dumb anti-socialist arguments before, but "people who are not able to provide labor to a market economy should starve to death" is a new one.

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those things sound very good. Corporate growth for the sake of growth is what got us to an atmospheric carbon dioxide level of 400PPM. If your idea of a company's success is how much profit it accrues, maybe it's time to question why it is you think that's a good thing.

Market failure got us to 400PPM. The externalities of carbon and methane pollution have not been properly priced in. That can be resolved with a market mechanism - a carbon tax. The free market has also brought us widespread electric cars, solar panels, gas power plants. The very things with which we will combat climate change. Socialism has brought us expanding populations globally, by offering free food to people w…

>The free market has also brought us widespread electric cars, solar panels, gas power plants.

Massive government investment brought us each of those.

>Socialism has brought us expanding populations globally, by offering free food to people who are not productive enough to buy it. The biggest threat to the planet now are the expanding populations of countries who still have their fertility rate above replacement rate.

If we are attributing threats, I'd look closer to home.

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#36
post #6

Sorry for the naive question, but how does this work? So let's say the employees now are part of this trust which owns 75% of the shares. What is the benefit? The trust owns the shares legally correct? Is it some sort of profit sharing scheme? I assume you don't hold on to the shares when you leave the company (as they are with the trust)? Does every new hire dilute the ownership? How does this actually impact the da…

The John Lewis Partnership is perhaps the most famous employee-owned company in the UK, and they have a fair amount of information about what it means, available on their website: https://www.johnlewispartnership.co.uk/work/employee-ownersh...

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those things sound very good. Corporate growth for the sake of growth is what got us to an atmospheric carbon dioxide level of 400PPM. If your idea of a company's success is how much profit it accrues, maybe it's time to question why it is you think that's a good thing.

Market failure got us to 400PPM. The externalities of carbon and methane pollution have not been properly priced in. That can be resolved with a market mechanism - a carbon tax. The free market has also brought us widespread electric cars, solar panels, gas power plants. The very things with which we will combat climate change. Socialism has brought us expanding populations globally, by offering free food to people w…

There was an interesting observation at some day cares in Israel. When their day care closed, parents would drop everything to make sure they picked their kids up on time, but some would still be late. At some point, these day cares decided to start applying fines whenever the parents were late, and it completely backfired. Parents were suddenly always late and in large numbers, because parents felt guilty about making teachers stay late, and by adding a fine, they removed that guilt.

I view a carbon tax in the same way. It's an easy way for companies to continue with whatever their doing and they replace any guilt they may have with an easy payment. It certainly isn't going to solve much, because it removes any real chance of accountability. It is not a significant enough incentive for them to implement impactful change.

The free market may help create solutions, but it will not sustain them. Reversing climate change will not be a profitable endeavor in the short-term, and unfortunately market success is a greedy algorithm.

It's a complete contradiction that a free market could ensure conservation, since it relies entirety upon consumption, and market success is about who consumes the most.

Link to article about Israel day cares: http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what...

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#38
post #6

Sorry for the naive question, but how does this work? So let's say the employees now are part of this trust which owns 75% of the shares. What is the benefit? The trust owns the shares legally correct? Is it some sort of profit sharing scheme? I assume you don't hold on to the shares when you leave the company (as they are with the trust)? Does every new hire dilute the ownership? How does this actually impact the da…

The John Lewis Partnership is perhaps the most famous employee-owned company in the UK, and they have a fair amount of information about what it means, available on their website: https://www.johnlewispartnership.co.uk/work/employee-ownersh...

Was going to say that Co-operative is probably a much more well-known UK company of this type, but checking that now, I just learned that Co-operative is in fact a brand name for a group of such companies.

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#39
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market failure got us to 400PPM. The externalities of carbon and methane pollution have not been properly priced in. That can be resolved with a market mechanism - a carbon tax. The free market has also brought us widespread electric cars, solar panels, gas power plants. The very things with which we will combat climate change. Socialism has brought us expanding populations globally, by offering free food to people w…

There was an interesting observation at some day cares in Israel. When their day care closed, parents would drop everything to make sure they picked their kids up on time, but some would still be late. At some point, these day cares decided to start applying fines whenever the parents were late, and it completely backfired. Parents were suddenly always late and in large numbers, because parents felt guilty about maki…

It's different because companies don't feel guilt. Instead, they are motivated purely by revenues and profits which makes a carbon tax a viable incentive for them to decrease carbon emissions. As of now, there are almost no real repercussions for companies who destroy the environment.

Re: Aardman Animation Is Giving the Company to Their Employees

#40

Employee ownership is a very old concept. All studies have shown that they are risk averse and have poor growth. I’d love for this to work, but you can’t fantasize your way to results.

And how long-lasting are these companies? Do they fail at providing a steady income for their employees?

Mondragon Cooperative is 62 years old, employs ~75k people and has revenues in the billions.
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