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Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

developers.google.com

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Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#81

Post by grayrest »

gojomo wrote: post #80
nine_k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you surely noticed, for last 10 years the browser is actively trying to replace your desktop OS, so that the browser would become the platform, instead of Windows / macOS / Linux / anything else. Imagine the desktop becoming ChromeOS on any computer, not just Chromebooks. For this, the browser must make all the traditional OS interfaces available. It has interfaces for accelerated 2D and 3D graphics, audio, USB, p…

Just the "last 10 years"? Nah, replacing the desktop OS has been the goal of browser-makers since the founding of Netscape nearly 25 years ago.

I'd agree with the 10 year timeframe. Before that browsers were basically aiming for HyperCard. It was only after the combination of the WhatWG and the emergence of the app store as an ecosystem threat that the browser vendors have pushed the browser towards OS replacement.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#82

Post by aaaaaaaaaab »

euroclydon wrote: post #33
unilynx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That requires you to also ship the private key to end users, and your certificate will be revoked once the CA discovers it

No, you can just install a self-signed unique cert for each machine.

But then why do you need the DNS/hosts file hack? You can issue a self-signed cert to localhost/127.0.0.1, put it in the user’s trust store and call it a day.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#83

Post by SahAssar »

euroclydon wrote: post #33
unilynx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That requires you to also ship the private key to end users, and your certificate will be revoked once the CA discovers it

No, you can just install a self-signed unique cert for each machine.

Asking users to install a CA or cert is not a good or scalable solution.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#84

Post by gojomo »

grayrest wrote: post #81
gojomo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the "last 10 years"? Nah, replacing the desktop OS has been the goal of browser-makers since the founding of Netscape nearly 25 years ago.

I'd agree with the 10 year timeframe. Before that browsers were basically aiming for HyperCard. It was only after the combination of the WhatWG and the emergence of the app store as an ecosystem threat that the browser vendors have pushed the browser towards OS replacement.

Sorry, the 90s were a real time, and the ambition to replace the desktop OS was already there, as per the ~1995 Bob Metcalfe quip (popularized by Marc Andreesen) that the Netscape browser would soon reduce Windows to "a poorly debugged set of device drivers".

There was a bit of a lull in progress in the mid-2000s, after the fall of Netscape Inc, until the rise of the mobile app threat you mention.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#85

Post by zawerf »

EGreg wrote: post #58
zawerf wrote: post #26

This will be amazing for simple webapps! In a lot of use cases, all you really want is a simple way to read and save a small blob of data. But to achieve this today you would have to do one of: - Save it in local storage, but lose their data if they clear it or use another device. - Build out a REST API backend, but need to also build auth and account management. - Use a backend as service such as firebase, but still…

Why not IndexedDB? Is that cleared also when you reinstall an app or something

Yea it has the same problems as web storage.

Also it's too opaque so the typical user won't understand that clearing their browser data means losing their work. They have already been trained by other sites to believe that their data should be persisted to the site's servers and that they should see their data even if they open the site on a different device.

Forcing them to choose where to save the data should hopefully clear up where their data lives. If they need multidevice they can sync their filesystem folders with one of many third party cloud storage of their choosing (such as dropbox).

I think it's a perfect fit for webapps like as photopea.com (photoshop clone in the browser) that came up on HN the other day.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#86

Post by piscisaureus »

fouc wrote: post #31
joshfraser wrote: post #19

One of the great things about browsers is the way you can trust them to be reasonably sandboxed from the rest of your machine. Features like this chip away at that trust model and open up new attack vectors against unsuspecting users. I get the usability benefits, but the security implications are scary. How easy would it be to trick my mother into uploading her profile picture and have the site change that file into…

And more than that, I honestly wonder about the motives of an advertising driven company these days. It feels like 5 years later this will come to bite us in the ass as another way of exploiting access to our computer and data. What if websites start requiring specific files to exist before allowing access?

> And more than that, I honestly wonder about the motives of an advertising driven company these days.

I wonder about ulterior motives too.

But in a world where even local apps increasingly try to make me store files in the cloud, I can only consider this as a move in the right direction.

All web apps can offer today is either (1) re-download the file (as the article mentions) or (2) save to GDrive/iCloud /OneDrive.

Working with local files is a win for user freedom.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#87

Post by Spivak »

rkagerer wrote: post #70
nine_k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you surely noticed, for last 10 years the browser is actively trying to replace your desktop OS, so that the browser would become the platform, instead of Windows / macOS / Linux / anything else. Imagine the desktop becoming ChromeOS on any computer, not just Chromebooks. For this, the browser must make all the traditional OS interfaces available. It has interfaces for accelerated 2D and 3D graphics, audio, USB, p…

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

Is it really surprising that in the wake of multiple platforms that refuse to interoperate that an OS that runs on top of every other OS is massively popular?

It doesn't matter that it's clunky and bad, CS people love working with hard to use systems, it just matters that it works.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#88

Post by rhlsthrm »

rkagerer wrote: post #70
nine_k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you surely noticed, for last 10 years the browser is actively trying to replace your desktop OS, so that the browser would become the platform, instead of Windows / macOS / Linux / anything else. Imagine the desktop becoming ChromeOS on any computer, not just Chromebooks. For this, the browser must make all the traditional OS interfaces available. It has interfaces for accelerated 2D and 3D graphics, audio, USB, p…

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

But why is it always necessarily "awkward and clunky"? As always on network connection becomes more and more ubiquitous, internet connected experiences become better and better. Just look at (well-designed) experiences today like streaming video.

I'm excited about things like WASM that will allow browser-based experiences to close the gap more and more with native apps. The web infrastructure is extremely powerful and has a fairly low barrier to entry so lots of people throw crappy experiences up, granted, but it's generally a good thing to have the resources so accessible.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#89

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

rkagerer wrote: post #70
nine_k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you surely noticed, for last 10 years the browser is actively trying to replace your desktop OS, so that the browser would become the platform, instead of Windows / macOS / Linux / anything else. Imagine the desktop becoming ChromeOS on any computer, not just Chromebooks. For this, the browser must make all the traditional OS interfaces available. It has interfaces for accelerated 2D and 3D graphics, audio, USB, p…

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

You're not alone. In another 20 years, you'll get to laugh tragically as a new generation of naive young techs invent yet another layer of abstraction on top of the browsers and gush about how this time it will finally be a universal platform. And your old 2TB of ram, 50 core cpu laptop might even still be able to run a text editor with only a few seconds of latency.

And it goes without saying that, for your own safety, none of these platforms will run code that hasn't been delivered by a trusted and approved corporate appstore.

The future of computing is very grim.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#90

Post by candiodari »

rkagerer wrote: post #70
nine_k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you surely noticed, for last 10 years the browser is actively trying to replace your desktop OS, so that the browser would become the platform, instead of Windows / macOS / Linux / anything else. Imagine the desktop becoming ChromeOS on any computer, not just Chromebooks. For this, the browser must make all the traditional OS interfaces available. It has interfaces for accelerated 2D and 3D graphics, audio, USB, p…

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

Not to mention that cloud based software inherently gives MUCH less control to the user.
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