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A note to our employees

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411–420 of 421 posts

Re: A note to our employees

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty clear what I'm asking. It is not a norm in other companies to penalize people's performance reviews for failing to complete routine training. What is a norm is that your manager at some point simply demands that you stop what you're doing and complete the training. What would happen if you refused? Who knows? I assume you'd get fired for cause, the same way you would if you deliberately disregarde…

> It is not a norm in other companies to penalize people's performance reviews for failing to complete routine training It's a norm pretty much everywhere to penalize people's performance reviews for failure to perform required job tasks on time, I know of no employer that doesn't do that (or, at least, expect supervisor to do it.) It may not be normal to apply a systematic penalty of a preset value to failing this p…

It's a norm pretty much everywhere to penalize people's performance reviews for failure to perform required job tasks on time

3 of the last 5 full-time jobs I've had were in health care. Which comes with at the very least HIPAA and, depending on the exact type of health stuff you do, possibly other training, every year in order to show compliance with relevant laws and regulations.

I've never been told "if you don't do the training we penalize your performance review". I have been told "if you don't do the training, you don't work here".

Re: A note to our employees

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If implied in your question that the goal should be equity in 'thought', how do you propose that is measured? OP mentioned "ideas & experience," not "thought," which seems like an intentional framing as something unbounded and immeasurable. Diversity of ideas could be measured by the average number of options/solutions that are seriously considered (and investigated/piloted) over the course of multiple projects for…

Precisely. That's what was embedded in the question. It doesn't matter what color people are. It's not meaningful diversity on its own. What they seem to be doing is judging people based on surface traits, not the content of character. Their approach to diversity is a regression and not good for progress.

What they seem to be doing is judging people based on surface traits

Do you believe that a poor black kid from Detroit is only different in "surface traits" as compared to a rich white kid from Orange County?

Or would you be willing to concede that there may be reliable correlations between some "surface traits" and diversity of life experiences and viewpoints? Demographic analysis of things like voting patterns in the US seems to suggest differences of such magnitude that I doubt you'd find another factor more strongly predictive.

Re: A note to our employees

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet it remains an interesting thought experiment, doesn't it? Sure, but that doesn't make it a sound policy for real political discourse. > Didn't it work on Reddit, in which they found that driving hateful communities out raised the level of discourse? Or did it simply fuel a growing narrative of censorship and persecution which is driving the counter-PC culture and electing people like Trump? I don't think an…

>Sure, but that doesn't make it a sound policy for real political discourse. I can't see why not. >Or did it simply fuel a growing narrative of censorship and persecution which is driving the counter-PC culture and electing people like Trump? No. And besides, on the logic that it might make people angry or convinced of their delusional views therefore we shouldn't do it is very poor reasoning. >because these changes…

> No. And besides, on the logic that it might make people angry or convinced of their delusional views therefore we shouldn't do it is very poor reasoning.

Good thing that isn't what I suggested then.

> In the same way that naive tolerance does?

Define "naive" tolerance. Seems like you're either assuming the conclusion, or trying to persuade with loaded language.

> "Only one thing could have broken our movement – if the adversary had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed with extreme brutality the nucleus of our new movement." (A Hitler at the 1933 Nuremberg Nazi Party rally) > > "If our opponents had been clever, considering that political weapons were so unevenly distributed, they could have undoubtedly found ways and opportunities to make our success impossible." (J Goebbels, 1934) > > "If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work" (J Goebbels, 1934)

Ah, so if they hadn't been sympathetic or they had been able to read minds so as to discern the intentions of Nazi party leaders. Well that's totally reasonable then.

Honestly, precisely what expressions of intolerance do you think would have prevented the rise of the Nazi party? Everything you've quoted is devoid of anything concrete.

> Not in democratic society; can you point me to which Kantian thinkers (including Kant himself!) whose thought formed the basis of any modern state?

Irrelevant. The question is whether Kantian principles entail the relevant conclusion. We are beholden not only to government law, but moral law as well. Or do you think it's ethical or virtuous to violate the spirit of a law while following the letter of the law?

Furthermore, my claim is not that all opinions are equally valid and deserving of equal attention. My claim is that changing opinions by non-coercive means is right. Doxxing, violence, and online mobs are not right way to change opinion.

> I disagree, and as I said earlier, it's no crime to disagree with liberal dogma like this.

Not a legal crime, but nowadays it's certainly a social crime enforced by mob rule.

> But if we must go this route, what does violence say of structural violence, for instance?

That it can and should be alleviated by non-violent means, taking into consideration social inertia, ie. that it takes time for a message to propagate and persuade enough of the public. As Per MLK, violence begets violence. All the most revered figures of effective social change advocated non-violent means.

There is considerable debate whether the terrorism perpetrated by the suffragettes actually helped their cause. They clearly turned much of the public against the cause, and at best, they gained publicity for the cause, which was clearly possible to do via other means.

Re: A note to our employees

#414
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just ban alcohol at work? Why can't work be work, and social stuff can happen outside of it? I know it sounds a bit extreme. But, after reading "It doesn't have to be crazy it work," I feel like companies use alcohol to bribe employees to stay at the office after-hours. A midground would be drinking only with sit-down food. Nobody is doing shots while having dinner. Another idea could be making company social…

Feel free to ban anything you want at work. And the people who work there will select for if they want to be a part of it by becoming or remaining employees. (There are, of course, things that are illegal to ban) I personally want to work somewhere who values me as a responsible human being, and expects me to behave like one. The more a workplace feels like they have to micromanage their employees like children, the…

problem solved

Re: A note to our employees

#415
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just ban alcohol at work? Why can't work be work, and social stuff can happen outside of it? I know it sounds a bit extreme. But, after reading "It doesn't have to be crazy it work," I feel like companies use alcohol to bribe employees to stay at the office after-hours. A midground would be drinking only with sit-down food. Nobody is doing shots while having dinner. Another idea could be making company social…

[Googler here] We have much less company-provided alcohol at work than most tech companies that I'm aware of. Mostly beers once a week, and most people don't participate. This change is mostly talking about work social events that take place off site. My team's company holiday party last year was piloting this and gave each person two drink tickets upon entering. I think banning alcohol completely would reduce the at…

piloting? drink tickets have been a thing at google since 2005 ish

Re: A note to our employees

#417

One of the more interesting pieces is buried in the linked PDF: "Excessive alcohol: Harassment is never acceptable and alcohol is never an excuse. But one of the most common factors among the harassment complaints made today at Google is that the perpetrator had been drinking (~20% of cases). Our policy is clear: Excessive consumption of alcohol is not permitted when you are at work, performing Google business, or at…

Why not just ban alcohol at work? Why can't work be work, and social stuff can happen outside of it? I know it sounds a bit extreme. But, after reading "It doesn't have to be crazy it work," I feel like companies use alcohol to bribe employees to stay at the office after-hours. A midground would be drinking only with sit-down food. Nobody is doing shots while having dinner. Another idea could be making company social…

It also depends on the culture of the country.

In France it is common to have a small party (pot) during work hours when some people would have one drink. Max two.

These also can be at the end of the day but then usually this is by someone who is leaving.

Re: A note to our employees

#418
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Googler here] We have much less company-provided alcohol at work than most tech companies that I'm aware of. Mostly beers once a week, and most people don't participate. This change is mostly talking about work social events that take place off site. My team's company holiday party last year was piloting this and gave each person two drink tickets upon entering. I think banning alcohol completely would reduce the at…

piloting? drink tickets have been a thing at google since 2005 ish

Huh that's interesting! Been here for ~5 years and this drink ticket thing is only ~1yr old in my experience.

Re: A note to our employees

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not just ban alcohol at work? Why can't work be work, and social stuff can happen outside of it? I see this sentiment a lot (especially on HN!) and I share it. I usually skip team dinners when I can. But there's no accounting for taste, and humans in general seem to have a taste for mixing work and "social stuff", so why shouldn't companies encourage it in that capacity?

" I usually skip team dinners when I can. " The other side of that is the question, "How much damage has skipping employer social events done to your career?" You'll probably never know the answer.

On the flip-side, you usually hear about people who crater their reputation due to their antics at office parties.

I'm sure they didn't have "get drunk and make everyone listen to their inappropriate jokes or worse" on their mind when they left the office.

Re: A note to our employees

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which country is it customary to repeatedly ask someone out?

It used to be quite common everywhere. The idea that you should immediately give up after a single "no" is very modern even in the west, and by no means is it an idea all women are on board with. For example. George Clooney had to ask his wife out three times before she said yes. I believe Melinda Gates said no to Bill Gates the first time he asked her out (and of course, he was her boss). In Russian culture it's com…

You’re talking about something different. Or at least mixing examples. I’m quite aware that there are many examples of men not giving up the first time, but parent comment seemed to suggest that in their culture, the woman is expected to say no, despite their positive interest, and the man is expecting to receive a no, and is then expected to try more, as though this scenario is the norm and not the exception.
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