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Ask HN: "Is that work?"

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Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#21

Post by dmitri1981 »

> Some statistics recently suggested that a snowball had a better chance of opening an ice cream shop in the deepest layer of hell than I have of getting another job.

You could not be more wrong. I organise the London Hacker News meetup and speak weekly to people who are DESPERATE to get a good developer. Unemployment may well be high, but there is huge demand for good developers. Unless you have very strong ties to the area I would recommend moving closer to a big city and you'll be able to make considerably more than £17k.

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#22

Post by dmitri1981 »

wyclif wrote: post #11

20 days holiday? In the UK? That sounds like USA holiday time to me, mate. And if you're starting a new job in the US, that would be positively generous , I'm sorry to say.

That is actually the legal minimum in UK, though it does not include 8 bank holiday days.

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#24

Post by LaPingvino »

throwaway_burn wrote: post #19
zipdog wrote: post #10

I feel for your situation, 'cos coding for me is actually more like 50% writing code and 50% daydreaming/browsing/whatever. Coding is a creative task. Typically though I'll think of an excellent shortcut/solution after an hour of staring into space, and that shortcut saves about a days work. Problem is, how do I quantify that saving? In the past I've spec'ed work to my boss on how long it would take to do a project t…

I do smoke, and I barely get away with 2 5 minute breaks a day.

I don't smoke and don't recommend it generally, but for work it has absolutely its merits, and this doesn't sound right at all...

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#25

Post by SandB0x »

corin_ wrote: post #20

I used to have a similar boss who didn't understand what it was I did: he would pay me compliments for the simplest of tasks, and not acknowledge when I had done something awesome. Anytime I had an issue like this I'd just call him on it and explain, and he'd turn around. For the record, he was a complete asshole in every possible way, not a nice guy who sadly didn't understand - but he still wasn't able to keep whin…

> "..write a letter (or email) explaining that you love your job, you love working with him, but that you are finding it so stressful you feel you will need to leave if it doesn't change. Explain exactly why you feel stressful, make it clear you understand where he's coming from, empathise with his situation, then give examples of why you work the way you work.... Most of all, make sure you avoid giving him the impression that you blame him, dislike him, think he's stupid for not understanding your job, or anything along those lines."

Completely disagree. This is not marriage counselling, this is the job market.

The OP is being exploited. I've seen this kind of thing happen loads of times. It's too late to adjust the power balance between him and his boss. The OP needs to find better employment - he could team up with a designer and build sites for businesses and earn twice as much sitting at home. It's also very important that he leaves the door open to well paid contracting offers from his current employer.

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#26

Post by edw519 »

To the right of where I sit, is my boss, the son of one of the Managing Directors of this company.

100% of the gigs I've ever had working for a child of the founder were absolute hell. Looks like you're there, too. Run, don't walk, in the other direction!

Now I'm not saying that all children of founders are like this, just that it's my overwhelming experience. I don't know why this is, but I have many guesses. Perhaps they feel entitled, as if they actually built the business. Perhaps they have stunted social skills because they never needed them. Perhaps they feel superior to everyone else because they landed in a pot of gold having earned it only by being born.

You are not the problem. Your situation is. If your work is good, it's because he thought of it. If it's not, it's because you suck. You can't win. Get out.

Once you're in a more normal environment, two things will happen: you'll feel much better and you'll wonder why you took so long to do it.

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#27

Post by corin_ »

SandB0x wrote: post #25
corin_ wrote: post #20

I used to have a similar boss who didn't understand what it was I did: he would pay me compliments for the simplest of tasks, and not acknowledge when I had done something awesome. Anytime I had an issue like this I'd just call him on it and explain, and he'd turn around. For the record, he was a complete asshole in every possible way, not a nice guy who sadly didn't understand - but he still wasn't able to keep whin…

> "..write a letter (or email) explaining that you love your job, you love working with him, but that you are finding it so stressful you feel you will need to leave if it doesn't change. Explain exactly why you feel stressful, make it clear you understand where he's coming from, empathise with his situation, then give examples of why you work the way you work.... Most of all, make sure you avoid giving him the impre…

If he loves his job, as he says he does, he'd be stupid to not even try and resolve the issues.

My suggestions aren't exactly along the lines of "just put up with it" or "give it a few years". He can easily try these steps while job hunting - won't delay him at all.

I went down this road, and it kept me happy enough to stay at an awesome company.

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#28

Post by _b8r0 »

I'm not sure if you're setting expectations with him. I have this problem to some extent. Some of our guys email around everyone telling them what they're doing, asking questions, trying to get feedback from everyone else. Others have clammed up, don't talk, shut themselves in. When the guys that talk about what they're doing (and some of it is weird obscure stuff, so they kindly abstract it) then you know they've been working hard. The guys who were quiet, never said anything, then you walk past them one time while they're taking their lunch late at around 3 because they've been working on something, well it looks like they've been goofing off. The reason is that this is all the information that I as a manager have been provided with. I know my guys enough to know that they're not goofing off, but it can be a bit like herding cats sometimes.

If you tell your boss what you're doing at a high enough level ("I'm working through this set of problems to do with the way the car valuation service talks to us - they don't have any documentation so I'm having to work it out by hand", or "I've been looking through the code I've written to deal with car valuations, I think I can speed it up a lot and reduce the load on the computers so we don't have to buy new ones later") and put it in terms he'll understand he'll know you're working hard.

Some people are shit managers. I should know, I are one :) Sometimes it's easier to manage your manager than the other way around.

Also your 20 days holiday is below the legal minimum.

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#29

Post by dugmartin »

throwaway_burn wrote: post #3
davidw wrote: post #2

> Trying to discuss this with him really isn't working. Any advice? My guess is that you not so unemployable as you seem to think. I'd look for another job in a company/industry where you're not just a 'cost'.

That's really how I feel here. Just a cost. He tells me he has to justify our "team"'s existance to his dad whenever he sees him. The graphic designer does all print and web graphic design, The Marketing manager does all copy, liaises with the print firms and manages marketing targets and plans with all the dealerships group wide, I do all the web stuff. If there's a car dealership that doesn't need to market or adve…

In a sales organization if you aren't a salesperson you are seen as a cost center. If you want to get their respect build some web only promotions and tell your boss you want a cut of the commission of every car sold through them or even better handle the sale yourself and take all the commission.

Re: Ask HN: "Is that work?"

#30

Post by c1sc0 »

ok, in a previous life I solved this in the following way: fire up a terminal, download lynx, set up a scary color scheme, then consume the web from the command line. This has 2 great effects:

1) You won't be looking at all those stupid picture threads 2) Monospaced white on black font works like a scarecrow on most people

Next, find yourself a better boss

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