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Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

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Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#211

Post by devonEnlis »

coldtea wrote: post #161
devonEnlis wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"fraud product" - Do you mean the product that has been FDA approved for 6 years? Is the FDA "in" on the fraud? Is the New England Journal of Medicine in too? Does having one product (that sold $xxx mil last year) make a bad company? Or one that put all of it's chips into this long term outcomes study? (which has now paid off) Why do you care so strongly about this?

> "fraud product" - Do you mean the product that has been FDA approved for 6 years? Is the FDA "in" on the fraud? No, but something can be both FDA approved and fraud, e.g. snake oil. It just can't be particularly dangerous. > Why do you care so strongly about this? Wasn't you who devoted 4-5 arguments to a single comment the parent made? Why add this pop-psychology facile dismissal? What does "care so strongly" even…

Trying to understand the commenter's motivations. This product has reduced cardiovascular death - if his fraud conspiracy theory convinces appropriate patients not to take it, it could literally kill people.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#212

Post by dragonwriter »

agsdfgsd wrote: post #203
r00fus wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy. There are plenty of us who are doing plenty of exercise, who have adjusted our diets to remove cardiovascular risks, and yet are suffering from being dealt poor hands at genetic poker. Us folk need all the help we can get.

I don't mean this to be combative, but what makes you assume it is genetics? The amount of conflicting and often known false "health" information out there makes it very likely that you just haven't tried the right change yet. Try cutting out polyunsaturated fats and using coconut oil for cooking. PUFA are broken down into toxic free radicals by lipid peroxidation. Long term exposure to these free radicals causes hor…

> Unfortunately it is essentially impossible if you want to buy pre-made food as almost all of it contains "vegetable oil".

“Vegetable oil”, as such, is almost never an ingredient in premade food, as it is a marketing term for plant-based oil as a standalone consumer product (even “vegetable oil” itself lists the actual specific oil or oils used, usually pure soybean oil) as ingredients.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#214

Post by cies »

loeg wrote: post #206
cies wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fructose does not raise blood sugar (!) It does, but in the absence of fat (>10cal%) in the diet it does not raise it in a significant way. > but can lead to NAFLD Do you have a source for that? Here a pretty comprehensive breakdown of the ways NAFLD can come about. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/prevent-non-alcoholic-fatty...

FYI: nutritionfacts.org is a quack site run by a quack (Michael Greger).[0][1] It may on occasion present the truth (by accident if for no other reason), but it should not be trusted as a source. [0]: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illnes... [1]: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-not-to-die-review

[0]: Rubbish. Greger (and a long list of other docs) promote a WFPB diet. They are not professionally promoting "veganism" (which is not a diet, but an ethical stance; and wrt to diet is more broad than the WFPB diet), and this article makes claims against veganism. Off point. Let's move on...

[1]: HNTD (the book) is on the topic of treating disease with whole plant food. Is that a problem? Is he denying that sometimes another approach is needed? (nope) Is he claiming prevention is better than curing? (yups) Now the article does little more that claiming "cherry picking"... 1/4th of the book is refs to scientific publications. Whether you think this was cherry picked or carefully selected is up to you... It more a matter of taste than anything else.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#215

Post by wpietri »

nikkwong wrote: post #95
wpietri wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My doctor's excellent on the topic. She pays a lot of attention to studies on supplements and has made recommendations and answered questions for me. The key information she provides is: Given my health history, is this likely to be useful to me? With a side of: Are there unexpected risks for me?

And what has she suggested?

You are seriously asking me to reveal my medical history?

Short answer: none of your business.

I'm glad to say, though, that I spot-checked what she said against the medical research literature myself and it seemed right to me.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#216

Post by phkahler »

codewiz wrote: post #194
phkahler wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for the statins... Doc said we had to treat my high cholesterol and triglycerides. I was very reluctant to take statins so she said "OK try red yeast rice for 3 months but if it doesn't improve you're gonna have to take statins". OK. My cholesterol 320->220. My triglycerides 300+ -> 115. It turns out that lovastatin was identified as one of the key molecules in the ancient Chinese remedy. So that's my one data poi…

It's not at all surprising that red yeast rice would be as effective as a prescription drug in lowering triglycerides. In fact, "Some red yeast rice products contain large amounts of monacolin K, which is chemically identical to the active ingredient in the cholesterol-lowering drug lovastatin." (from https://nccih.nih.gov/health/redyeastrice ) It seems statins have serious side effects such as nerve damage, so perha…

I got the muscle aches that can come from statins. Lowered my dose and they went away. Thing is, the doc never saw anyone achieve the results I did with the prescription stuff. No need to support a broken patent system and get a doctor and pharma company involved.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#217

Post by agsdfgsd »

loeg wrote: post #205
agsdfgsd wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is low dose aspirin bad for the average person? It is an anti-inflammatory, and inflammation is a leading theory of potential disease causation for a number of diseases. Daily low dose aspirin is associated with a significantly lower all-cause mortality in average people.

> How is low dose aspirin bad for the average person? There's a small dollar cost, and there's this whole section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin#Adverse_effects

Nothing there suggests it is bad for the average person. The average person will lower their chances of dying by taking daily low dose aspirin. The average person does not have a sensitivity to aspirin, and the side effects of high dose aspirin don't apply.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#218

Post by agsdfgsd »

dragonwriter wrote: post #212
agsdfgsd wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean this to be combative, but what makes you assume it is genetics? The amount of conflicting and often known false "health" information out there makes it very likely that you just haven't tried the right change yet. Try cutting out polyunsaturated fats and using coconut oil for cooking. PUFA are broken down into toxic free radicals by lipid peroxidation. Long term exposure to these free radicals causes hor…

> Unfortunately it is essentially impossible if you want to buy pre-made food as almost all of it contains "vegetable oil". “Vegetable oil”, as such, is almost never an ingredient in premade food, as it is a marketing term for plant-based oil as a standalone consumer product (even “vegetable oil” itself lists the actual specific oil or oils used, usually pure soybean oil) as ingredients.

Yes, the quotes are because the name is intentionally misleading, not to suggest you'll necessarily see it as an ingredient (although it is listed as such sometimes). Soybean, canola, corn, safflower, sunflower and cottonseed oils are the typical toxic "vegetable oils" that should be avoided.

>(even “vegetable oil” itself lists the actual specific oil or oils used,

Often it just provides a list of oils the company uses, and you have no idea which one or how much of which ones is in the particular container you're looking at. There's plenty of "soybean and/or canola oil" out there.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#219

Post by bonoboTP »

speedplane wrote: post #144
cies wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mercury levels in the fish Better not to eat fish at all, as one small bit of tuna (for instance) per week already increases the mercury build up in the body. https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/fish/ Also, you can get high DHA omega 3 supplements made from algae. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/should-we-take-epa-and-dha-...

Tuna is nice and fancy (and expensive). Few eat it every day. Tilapia is cheap, sustainable, and has low mercury. I’m no nutritionist, but what’s the big deal with eating tuna every now and again, but mostly sticking to smaller fish?

Canned tuna is quite cheap, isn't it?

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#220

Post by cies »

loeg wrote: post #207
speedplane wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuna is nice and fancy (and expensive). Few eat it every day. Tilapia is cheap, sustainable, and has low mercury. I’m no nutritionist, but what’s the big deal with eating tuna every now and again, but mostly sticking to smaller fish?

'cies is repeatedly linking a vegan advocacy website. Infer from that what you will.

Those doctors recommend a WFPB diet. Veganism is an ethical stance, not promoted professionally that I know by any of them (Greger, Campbell, Furman, Eisselstyn, McDoughal, Klaper, etc.).

Is there a chance that a diet that is similar to chimps, bonobos and utangs is most healthy for us as well?

No refined food, mostly fruits+leaves and some seeds and bugs. It "maybe" that simple. These doctors are aware of this, and promote --to my best knowledge-- based on science what can logically be derived from our evolutionary ancestery.

Calling it "vegan advocacy" is besides the point. It's WFPB advocacy, because it's showing to work in studies/practices.

High meat cultures never produced the longest living people. High fruit+leaves have, repeatedly.

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