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Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

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Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#101

Post by walrus01 »

kibwen wrote: post #8

I was about to say that launching so far from the equator sounds very fuel-inefficient, but it turns out that their launchpad's latitude (39 degrees south) is nearer the equator than Russia's primary launch site, the Baikonur Cosmodrome (45 degrees north). For reference, Cape Canaveral is 28 degrees north.

If you're launching into sun-synchronous and highly inclined or polar orbits, you want to be as far north or south as possible. They're not going for low inclination orbits, but rather the opposite, if you look at the ground track of an Iridium satellite, that's a perfect example of a polar orbit.

Spire is one of their customers, that's earth observation, perfect use case example for polar orbit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_orbit

To avoid dropping the first stage on a populated area if you're launching into a polar orbit, you also need a very empty area of land or an ocean under your flightpath. For example Israel has a domestic satellite launch capability (they're one of the few countries that launches LEO stuff westbound, to retrograde orbits) because they both can't drop first stages on the eastern neigbours, and can't launch heading north or south.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#102

Post by wbl »

greglindahl wrote: post #76
curuinor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, isn't Rocket Lab an american company, and they're just locating the rocket in NZ? Founders were Kiwis but HQ is in California...

The rocket uses a fair amount of ITAR-restricted technology, which means that they needed a pretty robust US-based organization and engine manufacturing. The company also sold a bunch of suborbital rocket launches to the US government before they raised money to build an orbital rocket. And the money mostly came from US-based VCs. All of these details feed into the company HQ being in the US, but a majority of their…

ITAR restricts US parts. It does not apply to non US technology sources although Wassenar and MTCR are multilateral. It would be possible to make rockets with no ITAR covered parts. After all that's what Russia France and China have.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#103

Post by djsumdog »

unknown_apostle wrote: post #95
djsumdog wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should totally do it, and go to Wellington. It's the best city :-P I lived there for three years and miss it. I might try to get another work visa, either to go back to Welly or Melbourne.

So same question: why did you go away, or how did you loose your work visa? For me it's a cool job in Auckland. What worries us is the distance and the logistics of bringing over our entire family... I can see myself working there, bringing over the family, and then loosing my job e.g. because of some recession and not find another job in the grace period.

I started with a Holiday Work visa and later applied for and got a regular work visa (was working full time in tech, so they're easy to get).

eh, I left for some complicated personal reasons. I wrote a post about it if you're interested: https://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/

edit: my visa was still good though; could have easily paid to get my work to residence or full residence visas. Kinda wish I had. :-P

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#104

Post by Solarsail »

masklinn wrote: post #67
InTheArena wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the Chinese get to drop rockets on their towns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJRZ-eyncVk The Red Plume you see is Hypergolic fuels - the aforementioned "bad stuff". Highly toxic and carcinogenic.

Hypergolic doesn't mean "bad stuff", "highly toxic" or "carcinogenic" though, it just means "ignites on its own" (it's usually though not necessarily a combination of a fuel and an oxidiser[0]) Then again, hypergolic components are generally extremely toxic or ridiculously corrosive or both. [0] generally because e.g. Chlorine Trifluoride is such a strong oxidiser it's famously[1] hypergolic with stuff not usually co…

The word hypergolic doesn't mean that, but in spaceflight the term refers to a fairly specific group of compounds; Dinitrogen tetroxide and unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine or monomethylhydrazine (UDMH / MMH).

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#105

Post by 14 »

sgc wrote: post #94
jcims wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a little older, I’m banking my hopes on an option in 30 years. Just visited my grandpa yesterday for his 90th birthday, his body is slowing down but his mind is as sharp as ever. I’m not counting it out just yet.

I'm not convinced that they will allow the elderly to fly anyways. Too many Gs.

I work in health care and I imaging being elderly living on a space station with lowered gravity to make life a little lighter and easier. Also for the care givers low weight working with patients.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#106

Post by aurelianito »

aurelianito wrote: post #56
Waterluvian wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just had a daydream of Satellites as a Service. "give us a docker image extending our base image, no larger than x MB delta, and we will run it on a chosen satellite for a certain time slice for $y" I can see that future. Even if purely as a learning tool for students.

AFAIK, that's what Satellogic ( https://www.satellogic.com ) sells. You may want to contact them.

Disclaimer: while I am not directly involved with what they do, I happen to know personally both of the founders and a lot of the people working there.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#107

Post by [deleted] »

devindotcom wrote: post #77
FlyingSideKick wrote: post #75

While this is fantastic news on one hand, it is concerning that cheap launches will lead to so much debris in low earth orbit that future generations will find it difficult to orbit without significant risk of micrometeorite strikes.

Rocket Lab is being pretty good about this. Their rocket designs are super low waste compared with older ones. It's one of Peter Beck's pet issues.

[deleted]

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#108

Post by mmirate »

neaanopri wrote: post #90
2trill2spill wrote: post #52

My favorite thing about Rocket Lab is the rocket engine they use[1]. By replacing the turbopump with a electric motor they were able to remove one of the single most complicated and expensive parts of a rocket engine. As battery densities keep increasing we should see electrically fed engines being used on bigger and bigger rockets. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutherford_(rocket_engine)

Electric turbopumps are an answer to the question: "how small can you make a commercially viable orbital rocket?" Atmospheric drag effects rocket performance less and less the larger a rocket gets (square-cube law), so that a rocket like the Space Shuttle can effectively ignore the atmosphere. Conversely, the smaller a rocket gets, the harder and harder launch gets. This is the problem Rocket Lab has decided to attac…

> Cheap and performant brushless motor controllers.

Moreso than the good old 8-bit (in both senses iirc) AVR?

> Additive manufacturing for cheaply making complex parts without significant labor costs.

Who, when, and how, has 3D printing ever been used for materials stronger than ABS plastic?

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#109

Post by curtis »

power78 wrote: post #98
curtis wrote: post #97

I can't help but wonder if there are some interesting applications for electrically pumped rocket engines beyond just the small satellite market. For example, could you attach 3 or 4 Electron-derived boosters to an Atlas V first stage and use them to land it like a Falcon 9?

That would be a lot of extra launch weight just to return the first stage, not to mention the danger of having filled boosters on the rocket the whole launch.

They're boosters, they can boost themselves, so it seems like you could make them delta-V neutral.

Atlas V regularly launches with solid fuel boosters which are much larger and more powerful than an Electron, so it seems like there's no fundamental reason it wouldn't work. The economics is a different story, of course.

Atlas V is slated to be replaced by Vulcan sometime in the next few years anyway. Vulcan has a re-use story, but it involves only re-using the engines, not the entire stage. Full stage re-use like Falcon 9 has the same problem as Atlas V, there's no way you could deep throttle the main engines enough to land an empty stage.

It seems unlikely that anybody (most especially ULA who are very conservative) will turn Electrons into bolt-on boosters for an existing stage design. But integrating small electrically pumped rocket engines into a new design might be considered a lot less risky. Especially with SpaceX having fundamentally changed the economics of the heavy launch business.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#110

Post by fbender »

Waterluvian wrote: post #16
quadcore wrote: post #4

I wish I could put software in one of those shoebox satellites.

I just had a daydream of Satellites as a Service. "give us a docker image extending our base image, no larger than x MB delta, and we will run it on a chosen satellite for a certain time slice for $y" I can see that future. Even if purely as a learning tool for students.

Check out the AstroPi challenge [1] for a similar idea on the ISS. Including support for multiple sensor and cameras.

[1] https://astro-pi.org/

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