Live data from Hacker News

My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

digitalmusicnews.com

51–60 of 86 posts

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#51
post #19
post #8

People still seem to be stuck quantifying the value of music (sales, streams, etc) against a time when there was less saturation and the actual cost of producing, marketing and distributing music was much higher.

Well yes, because that was a time when musicians could earn a living. It's legitimate to question the current situation.

While in my personal version of a just world all artists would make a livable salary and I think this is what you mean, however if what I’m hearing from music industry friends is accurate, there are far more artists now making a modest but still livable income off music than there was in the late and very early 20th century.

Apparently almost no music artists could earn a living previously — the only musician who could were union symphony employees, studio musicians, and the very very few who cracked into the charts.

I suspect what we’re seeing in articles such as this are people who believe they should be traveling the world partying in castles with supermodels, and sadly I think for a small to mid popular group, this is just as unrealistic now as it has ever been.

My dad talks about him and his friend’s bands in their teens, 20s, and 30s and how playing their music actually cost them money when equipment, practice space, and traveling expenses were considered. Back then most would have killed to have a small middle class income to play music. Now it seems there are many tiny bands who between streaming, the audience they can generate online, and aggressive touring, they can make a modest living which unfortunately and fortunately, in our current iteration of capitalism is a win of some kind.

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#52

I've written over 20 blog articles about software development over the past couple of years; each article is typically thousands of words. My blog has had hundreds of thousands of views in total (targeted at developers; a valuable demographic) and I've made $0 from it. I find that writing blog articles is easy and I like doing it. If you want to make money from anything, unfortunately, you've got to compete with peop…

Your comment has nothing to do with this post. And you come off as a total asshole. Did you read it?

The post is about Spotify underpaying artists for their work, which many people (1M+) enjoy.

Yours is about a hobby that you do for your own enjoyment. Anyone else read it? Anything close to 1M readers?.

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#53

I've written over 20 blog articles about software development over the past couple of years; each article is typically thousands of words. My blog has had hundreds of thousands of views in total (targeted at developers; a valuable demographic) and I've made $0 from it. I find that writing blog articles is easy and I like doing it. If you want to make money from anything, unfortunately, you've got to compete with peop…

Your comment has nothing to do with this post. And you come off as a total asshole. Did you read it? The post is about Spotify underpaying artists for their work, which many people (1M+) enjoy. Yours is about a hobby that you do for your own enjoyment. Anyone else read it? Anything close to 1M readers?.

Publishing blog articles and publishing music or videos are all similar in terms of monetization. Some people will produce music for free and you have to compete with them.

It's not unusual to get hundreds of thousands or even millions of views and get very little out of it financially.

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#54
post #20

I feel like it's a false analogy to compare Spotify Streams to CD sales. For a fairer comparison, you should measure against something more ephemeral. The biggest radio channels in the US have a few million listeners each. Let's say your record does ok, and gets airtime on a few second-tier radio stations. For easy math, let's do 20 plays * 50,000 listeners per play. This also gives you a total of one million listens…

> I would be _extremely_ surprised if they would net much more than $5000 from these radio listens. Me too. Unless they've recently changed the rules, the artist gets nothing when a song is played on the radio.

This is..complicated. The performer doesn't get money, but the song writer does. These are often the same person, but not always. Must suck for bands whose biggest hits are cover songs.

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#55
post #44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are getting ripped off. Many record companies, in their own financial interest, reduced the royalty cost for streams with Spotify in exchange for revenue shares. I would feel pretty ripped off if I made a big, delicious cake, and as a reward I get one tiny slice while I had to watch everyone else eat the rest. Maybe not if making cakes is just a small hobby for me, but definitely so if it's my career .

Citation please

It's common knowledge. I don't need to provide a citation every time I bring it up.

But here, since you're too lazy to look it up or write more than two words:

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/heres-exactly-how-man...

Interestingly, earlier this year several record companies either mostly or fully divested in Spotify, with some companies like Warner getting over half a billion dollars. Reasons are unclear even though they have made vague public statements.

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#56

In case anyone is interested in alternatives, I think we live in an amazing time for non-streaming music consumption. I run the VLC app on my mobile devices, which allows me to spawn a web server served off the mobile device that I can connect to in the browser on my laptop or desktop PCs. I can upload raw music files (mp3, ogg, etc etc) onto the mobile devices seamlessly, and it categorizes them by album. I only eve…

[deleted]

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#57
post #20

I feel like it's a false analogy to compare Spotify Streams to CD sales. For a fairer comparison, you should measure against something more ephemeral. The biggest radio channels in the US have a few million listeners each. Let's say your record does ok, and gets airtime on a few second-tier radio stations. For easy math, let's do 20 plays * 50,000 listeners per play. This also gives you a total of one million listens…

> I would be _extremely_ surprised if they would net much more than $5000 from these radio listens. Me too. Unless they've recently changed the rules, the artist gets nothing when a song is played on the radio.

They haven't recently changed the rules. The average for terrestrial radio in the US is around 12c/play.

In the UK it can be up to £15/minute plus £35/play on a top radio station like Radio 1. Less mainstream stations pay less.

The artist may see half of that depending on their publishing deal.

So... Spotify's microcents per stream are a joke.

Around 80% of Spotify revenue goes to rights holders - i.e. a handful of big record companies.

Around 10% of that 80% goes to artists. [1]

The record labels keep the rest.

[1] The exact accounting details are byzantine, especially in their creative use of expenses which diminish apparent revenue. They also vary from artist to artist. Top artists get a much bigger cut than newly signed artists. But no one gets much from Spotify plays when compared to radio payments.

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#58
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's a broader proble with society.

I'm not so sure. Why ? Well, one way to conceptualize human needs is maslow's hierarchy. the final, LOWEST priority need is self-fulfillment. so there are many more pressing problems before that to solve. but: It says nowhere that self-fulfillment must be in your job. Who says that being a successful musician is "the" useful trait to develop ? reading about successful musicians, and knowing one, they don't seem parti…

It's odd how this argument is applied to artists, but never to financiers, investors, and CEOs.

What if being insanely rich isn't "the" trait to develop? Reading about successful CEOs, and knowing one very distantly, they don't seem particularly healthy.

And who says creative expression is a thing to develop anyway? Why can't we just keep making already rich people even richer without complaining about it?

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be _extremely_ surprised if they would net much more than $5000 from these radio listens. Me too. Unless they've recently changed the rules, the artist gets nothing when a song is played on the radio.

They haven't recently changed the rules. The average for terrestrial radio in the US is around 12c/play. In the UK it can be up to £15/minute plus £35/play on a top radio station like Radio 1. Less mainstream stations pay less. The artist may see half of that depending on their publishing deal. So... Spotify's microcents per stream are a joke. Around 80% of Spotify revenue goes to rights holders - i.e. a handful of b…

> So... Spotify's microcents per stream are a joke.

If you treat it as analogous, sure, but it's not.

Airplay is finite in a way that streams are not. There is also a greater cost to get in to that airspace. So it's not surprising those costs cascade down.

People frame streaming like this all the time. Streams versus CD sales versus radio play. They're incomparable ecosystems, though. Costs, mechanisms, value ... none of it is 1:1 with the old world.

Re: My Band Has 1M Spotify Streams. Want to See Our Royalties? (2016)

#60
post #51
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, because that was a time when musicians could earn a living. It's legitimate to question the current situation.

While in my personal version of a just world all artists would make a livable salary and I think this is what you mean, however if what I’m hearing from music industry friends is accurate, there are far more artists now making a modest but still livable income off music than there was in the late and very early 20th century. Apparently almost no music artists could earn a living previously — the only musician who cou…

Average gross income for full-time musicians from a survey in 2011 was more than $50k.

Average income in 2018 was just over $20k - which is over minimum wage, but not exactly comfortable.

These are averages, not medians, so they're skewed by a relatively small number of professionals who do very well.

Post reply on HN