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Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

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Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#381

Post by mrb »

sparkie wrote: post #363
mrb wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

« Zcash only uses those for some transactions » No, Zcash offers the option to always use shielded transactions, if that's what you want. The choice to use a shielded or unshielded transaction rests solely in the hands of the user. It is true that CPU and memory complexity use to be high for shielded transactions. However Sapling just activated ( https://z.cash/blog/sapling-activation-complete/ ) and it resolves the…

Private transactions are not the default behavior, which makes transaction analysis more feasible than with private-by-default currencies like Monero. Also, zcash has the trusted setup issue, which requires that you trust the developers were not compromised or did not store data during the setup, or they might be able to print infinite coins without detection if the data were to be recovered. For some, this makes it…

«Private transactions are not the default behavior»

There is no "default" behavior. The software gives you the choice between shielded and unshielded, and the enduser has to choose. There is no default.

«requires that you trust the developers»

Not really. In the latest Powers of Tau ceremony, there were 87 participants. This group spans more than just the developers. Even if 86 participants were malicious or compromised, as long as there is at least 1 honest participant, the system can be trusted.

«Zooko only pays himself a $300,000/mo»

Not sure why this is a problem. By comparison, Satoshi "paid himself" (mined) 1M BTC =~ $6 billion dollars. I'm fine with the founders of world-changing cryptocurrencies being handsomely rewarded.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#382

Post by sydd »

samontar wrote: post #160
bouncycastle wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to share about my experience about the "permission" part. I once travelled to Beijing and had dinner in a fancy dumpling restaurant. When I went to pay the bill, my European bank instantly flagged the transaction and blocked my card from further use. I had no idea what happened until I called the bank later that evening (had to wait until they opened). So yeah, what you said happened to me - revoked instantly, s…

That’s anti-fraud to stop someone from stealing your card and using it elsewhere. You can usually pre-empt that by informing the bank of travel.

Yeah this story means that their anti fraud system sucks. false positives should be at 0.0001%

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#383

Post by cf498 »

I was really shocked when i experienced the same issue in the Netherlands.

I went there for a conference and only had to go straight to Amsterdam central, to science park and to my hotel in almere central.

I had to exit Amsterdam central station by scanning in the QR code of my paper ticket. The alarm at that station was ringing constantly because of all the foreign tourists who had no idea what to do.

Outside I had to go to the foreign help desk which was nice enough to give me some kind of tourist paper ticket, which i do have to say, i have no idea how it worked. Hopefully it was a rfid chip in the ticket, otherwise i triggered every last scanner by just pushing it on top and walked out. And every last person was heavily annoyed by all the retarded tourists. It did not help, that apparently the Netherlands do not bother to put up English signs.

I luckily could pay in cash for the toilet in central station, but that was really it when it comes to cash. I luckily could use my VISA for a train station locker, but i could not buy a bottle of water, as the machine at main station only took some kind of wireless card. The same applied to every supermarket but one near my hotel.

I stood in 3 ordinary supermarkets and wanted to buy a simple bottle of water. Thankfully one of the cashiers in the supermarket at science park was nice enough to pay for a bottle of water for me in exchange for cash.

How every nice the Netherlands are, it is a modern Dystopia.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#384

Post by PeterisP »

patd wrote: post #110
kristofferR wrote: post #97

I'm a Norwegian who went to a Swedish music festival last summer. I couldn't pay for a lot of things there, since the booths only accepted Swish (the only relevant Swedish mobile payment solution, it's a de facto monopoly). I couldn't sign up and use Swish on my phone, since it only accepts Swedish bank accounts. I couldn't borrow money from my Swedish friends either, since they didn't have cash (and it mostly wasn't…

Aren't you asking a bit too much info for a simple SEPA transfer ? The IBAN should be all you really need, the rest are nice to have.

Sweden is not in eurozone, so SEPA credit transfers have limited usage there; the full SEPA process works only for EUR-to-EUR transfers.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#385

Post by FabHK »

pishpash wrote: post #49
clintonb wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The development raises some crucial issues regarding the state’s role in the payment market. For hundreds of years, the public has been offered central bank notes and coins. If cash stops working, it would leave all individuals to rely on the private sector alone to get access to money and payment methods. This would be a historical change without precedence. Norway is seeing a similar trend, and the two central ba…

Private entities can be regulated to the same effect on the matter of access.

As the article discusses:

> One option is to do nothing, meaning we accept that the general public no longer has access to central bank money. Such a future would imply a changed scope for the public sector. The payment market would have to be regulated and supervised in new ways to meet fulfil the objective to have a safe, efficient and inclusive payment market.

> A second alternative is to issue central bank money in a digital form, as a complement to cash and the money held in bank accounts.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#386

Post by simonebrunozzi »

dingaling wrote: post #128
kristofferR wrote: post #97

I'm a Norwegian who went to a Swedish music festival last summer. I couldn't pay for a lot of things there, since the booths only accepted Swish (the only relevant Swedish mobile payment solution, it's a de facto monopoly). I couldn't sign up and use Swish on my phone, since it only accepts Swedish bank accounts. I couldn't borrow money from my Swedish friends either, since they didn't have cash (and it mostly wasn't…

> Utopia my ass It actually IS a Utopia, by Thomas More's original definition; a society that appears idyllic and perfectly organised on the surface, but is only maintained in that state by everyone doing what they're supposed to do. And that is achieved by enforcing total compliance through surveillance and coercion. The point of the book is that the reader really wouldn't want to live in Utopia once he understands…

You are correct, but I am sure the parent poster meant "utopia" in the more commonly interpreted way... a heavenly place of sort.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#387

Post by tensor »

bamboozled wrote: post #135
eksemplar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s festival payment done wrong, but cashless can be really great at festivals. In Denmark we have a festival called Skanderborg festival, and they build both your ticket and your cashless payment into the festival bracelet. You use the bracelet to pay everywhere, and you can add money to it a range of payment methods, from using a visa or similar in their app, to visiting one of the cash places where you can use…

The best payment experience I’ve had is cash. I pay for what I need and when I leave the festival I can still use my “credits” hassle free anywhere I like.

The best payment experience I've had is a credit card. It's harder to get robbed, I can pay everywhere with just a tap, I never need to remember to take out cash, tips are computed for me at my request, when I travel to many other countries I don't even need to get local currency, conversion happens automatically, and I'm not stuck with unused local currency when I leave.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#388

Post by zakum1 »

The article avoids mentioning the most important issue around central bank issued digital currencies:

Currently my electronic cash balance represents a deposit at a commercial bank. On the other hand, when I hold physical cash, it is a direct obligation between the central bank and I. As mentioned in the article, 90% of cash balances are electronic money held at Commercia banks.

With a central bank issued e-krona, there is no role for commercial bank deposits, the e-krona is a direct obligation between the central bank and individuals/companies. This means that commercial banks have very different balance sheets to use for lending. It fundamentally changes the financial system and creates very different payment and lending opportunities.

Initially the central bank may only issue <10% as e-krona to avoid this impact, but it makes little sense not to follow through to making e-krona the only form of cash.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#389

Post by angry_octet »

mmirate wrote: post #290
angry_octet wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've going to display your disdain for sky fairies on HN, best to pick on a small religion, unpopular with HN readers. Bahá'í perhaps, which preaches mutual love and the inherent value of all religion, yet its adherents are mercilessly persecuted by co-religionists.

Just because a particular brand of sky-fairy is popular, does not make it any better; on the contrary, the damage that a religion does is correlated positively with the number of its adherents.

To be sure, but the religionists will retaliate, thinking 'you have personally offended me, and punishing you is God's Work'. But if you disparage belief systems they disagree with they will tend to ignore you. And yet, the people who can understand your message will understand it applies to all religions.

Perhaps, attack the beliefs of the Noodlers and their belief that wearing the Holy Collander protects against credit card fraud.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#390

Post by Camillo »

felipemnoa wrote: post #243
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of Futurama episode where Bender finds a phone booth: "Now I don't need to carry my phone with me all the time!" Progress is sometimes a regress in disguise.

I've noticed this with mature technology. There comes a point where a product is perfect, no need to add anymore features. But the manufacturer still wants to continue adding new features so that they can use those as new selling points. Unfortunately the new features end up making the product worse.

2015 MacBook Pro was the peak for laptops.
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