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Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

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Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#361

Post by jeofken »

kristofferR wrote: post #97

I'm a Norwegian who went to a Swedish music festival last summer. I couldn't pay for a lot of things there, since the booths only accepted Swish (the only relevant Swedish mobile payment solution, it's a de facto monopoly). I couldn't sign up and use Swish on my phone, since it only accepts Swedish bank accounts. I couldn't borrow money from my Swedish friends either, since they didn't have cash (and it mostly wasn't…

Anglophones, please, please, excuse me for replying in my native tounge. The cashless society engages my aversion such that it is hard to say in my second language.

Så jävla enig alltså!

Fy fan för detta inskränkta, ofria land! Jag avundas norrmän, daner, och finnar för att de slipper Rosenbad.

Du, och alla andra skandinaver vet att genomsnittssvensken... har sina svårigheter.

Ser fram mot min årliga skridskosemester i Norge.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#362

Post by jeofken »

Aeolun wrote: post #345
kristofferR wrote: post #97

I'm a Norwegian who went to a Swedish music festival last summer. I couldn't pay for a lot of things there, since the booths only accepted Swish (the only relevant Swedish mobile payment solution, it's a de facto monopoly). I couldn't sign up and use Swish on my phone, since it only accepts Swedish bank accounts. I couldn't borrow money from my Swedish friends either, since they didn't have cash (and it mostly wasn't…

This has been my experience going on holiday in the Netherlands. Everything functions on cards and touch payments. I’m living in Japan where everything is cash, and it’s just such a culture shock to go to a place where I cannot simply pay for everything with cash...

There are many ways in which Japan is more civilized than Sweden is.

Speaking as a Swedish native who lived in japan for years

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#363

Post by sparkie »

mrb wrote: post #360
akvadrako wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zcash only uses those for some transactions because the complexity is so high. It also requires connecting to the payment network via an IP address, which isn't really anonymous.

« Zcash only uses those for some transactions » No, Zcash offers the option to always use shielded transactions, if that's what you want. The choice to use a shielded or unshielded transaction rests solely in the hands of the user. It is true that CPU and memory complexity use to be high for shielded transactions. However Sapling just activated ( https://z.cash/blog/sapling-activation-complete/ ) and it resolves the…

Private transactions are not the default behavior, which makes transaction analysis more feasible than with private-by-default currencies like Monero.

Also, zcash has the trusted setup issue, which requires that you trust the developers were not compromised or did not store data during the setup, or they might be able to print infinite coins without detection if the data were to be recovered. For some, this makes it a non-starter, despite the efficiency of SNARKS over Bulletproofs which Monero now uses.

Don't let that deter you though. Zooko only pays himself a $300,000/mo salary. He will struggle to get by without the crowds of new adopters.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#364

Post by asg »

dunnevens wrote: post #314
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of Futurama episode where Bender finds a phone booth: "Now I don't need to carry my phone with me all the time!" Progress is sometimes a regress in disguise.

Reminds me of an old scifi story. Someone in a far future or advanced alien society runs across a paper book. "A means of conveying information without needing power and without the risk of surveillance? Excellent!" (paraphrased from memory).

There a great Asimov story on these lines. Its called 'The fun they had'. Highly recommended. I read it aeons ago as a kid, and its stuck with me ever since.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#365

Post by jeofken »

CPLX wrote: post #14

A society without cash is a society in which every person has no choice but to get the permission of someone they don’t know and will never meet each and every time they seek to obtain food, water, shelter, or transportation, and that permission can be revoked instantly, silently, and invisibly at any time.

This is the truth!

I am native or Sweden and I hate, from the bottom of my heart, having to use my bank card for visits to restaurants, stores, etc. It is better when staying staying away from Stockholm, Göteborg, & Malmö.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#366

Post by type0 »

jamesblonde wrote: post #17

As a resident of Sweden, i can only say that this is the future for all western countries. Life is just better without cash. We don't pay the mental tax of always ensuring i have dollar bills on me to tip left, right, and center. Your phone is enough to get you through the day. The govt is still run by the people for the people here, so most people aren't worried about totalitarianism. Most beggars now have signs wit…

> The govt is still run by the people for the people here, so most people aren't worried about totalitarianism.

They should, it's just stupid not to care about democracy and your own freedom.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#367

Post by wott »

megaremote wrote: post #316
sizzle wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you run out of cash on hand or it gets lost or stolen....

No different to anything getting lost of stolen, and a bracelet is less likely to get lost or stolen.

> a bracelet is less likely to get lost or stolen.

You meant 'more', right?

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#368

Post by punnerud »

eftychis wrote: post #341
dr_dshiv wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the most obvious reason for the cashless trend is that cashless is easier and more fruitful for buyer and seller. Buyer just touches their card/phone to the machine. Who likes dealing with cash? (Answer: Germans)

Also Greeks, Italians and most the Europeans I know. Cashless is a Northern European thing I would say. Edit: Please comment if things are different in your non-Swedish country (considering Europe here, but curious about other countries of course).

It’s almost the same in Norway, but I think/hope it is easier for foreigners. You link your VISA to use Vipps, where you can pay is most bars, restaurants, taxi etc. One reason that Vipps (came before Swish?) is not booming in Norway could be because we have almost 0% fee on our cards. This is because all the banks have come together to make BankAxccept, just to avoid the fees that VISA and MasterCard use.

I see no need for using Vipps or ApplePay. I place my bank card on the terminal and it is paid, with no fees. If it is over $20 I have to enter the pin. Super simple.. Me and my wife actually laught when we find coins in old jackets, because we haven’t seen coins in months. Almost forgot how they look and feel.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#369

Post by FabHK »

belorn wrote: post #205
yellow_postit wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how Sweden in this case is enforcing the cashless trends through surveillance or coercion.

The primary cited reason for the cashless trend is the security against money laundering. My government has done every policy and regulative action they can to guarantee that all money transaction is recorded and a bank liable if anything is not clean.

It is worth noting that the article describes how private sector decisions are crowding out cash, how the government (specifically the central bank) is concerned about this, and considering to deliver a solution (namely digital cash issued by the central bank).

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#370

Post by taneq »

dunnevens wrote: post #314
dmitriy_ko wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of Futurama episode where Bender finds a phone booth: "Now I don't need to carry my phone with me all the time!" Progress is sometimes a regress in disguise.

Reminds me of an old scifi story. Someone in a far future or advanced alien society runs across a paper book. "A means of conveying information without needing power and without the risk of surveillance? Excellent!" (paraphrased from memory).

There was also that (Asimov? Clarke?) story about a space ship which has its computer knocked out by a meteoroid and can't navigate back to Earth until someone on-board turns out to know how to use an abacus.
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