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Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

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Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#451

Post by Deimorz »

OpenBSD-reich wrote: post #427
Deimorz wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: self-promotion I worked at reddit for almost 4 years, but quit and started a non-profit so I could work on building a site that would be able to stick to the principles I believe are important: no advertising or investors, open-source, privacy, higher-quality content, etc. It's not incredibly active yet since it's in invite-only alpha, but it gets several hundred posts a day and is coming along well. Ther…

DM an invite plz. Hopefully Tor isn't a problem. In the Age Of Snowden, I use it almost exclusively. Also might I suggest a .onion gateway (and maybe a .i2p gateway too)?

Hacker News doesn't have a messaging system.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#452

Post by notSupplied »

ex3xu wrote: post #415
1024core wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, this is not some conspiracy theory by a few anecdotal players. I've been working in the search engine industry for more than 15 years (as in, worked on core ranking algorithms and other infrastructure for a long time). I've heard similar reports countless times about ranking algorithms that our team controlled, and it was all just speculation. Once again: Yelp has been around for 10+ years. By now, surely someo…

You can try this guy for proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67Lh4LE5LY Though if you already have confirmation bias that anyone who complains of a large company of shady behavior is a crazy nut, maybe this conversation chain is simply a waste of time. Without access to Yelp internals, it's always possible to just write it off as hearsay. Especially when, if you read my post, the courts have ruled that this behav…

Just a random point of feedback, but you sound more like the one carrying confirmation bias here. But really, throwing that phrase around in an internet debate is pretty meaningless rhetoric. It takes YEARS of working with someone before I feel like I understand that person's biases well enough to accuse them of such a thing.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#453

Post by patrioticaction »

village-idiot wrote: post #351
mlrtime wrote: post #9

I don't have any sympathy for a site that purposely cripples the web mobile site to force you to install their app. They lock you out of pictures after around 20 so you have to go to desktop or install their crappy app. Yelp will not be missed.

Reddit gets the runner up trophy here. No Reddit, I am not installing your fucking app. I clicked decline a dozen times in a row, get the hint.

But don't you want to reduce their bandwidth usage?

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#454

Post by ransom1538 »

chmod775 wrote: post #92
ransom1538 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't have any sympathy for a site that purposely cripples the web mobile site to force you to install their app." They did this in response to Google. Their clicks from the google search results has been down for years [1]. What should they have done? [1] https://www.seroundtable.com/yelp-ceo-on-google-interstitial...

> They did this in response to Google. Their clicks from the google search results has been down for years [1]. What should they have done? Create a service people will actually want to use? They got a penalty for creating a frustrating experience, so they replaced it with another kind of frustrating experience?

"Create a service people will actually want to use?"

They did. It worked great and was awesome. One day, a large company changed it's rules removing most of the traffic pointed to it. It had to make changes. One attempt to survive was to move traffic to the app. I don't understand why trying to survive as a business is bad. Maybe people didn't want to click the close button on the app link -- I don't see how this should end Yelp and let google have more unchecked power to the small business reviews.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#455

Post by ex3xu »

1024core wrote: post #422
ex3xu wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try this guy for proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67Lh4LE5LY Though if you already have confirmation bias that anyone who complains of a large company of shady behavior is a crazy nut, maybe this conversation chain is simply a waste of time. Without access to Yelp internals, it's always possible to just write it off as hearsay. Especially when, if you read my post, the courts have ruled that this behav…

> Though if you already have confirmation bias You don't have to throw such claims around. If anything, they further weaken your case. I watched the first couple of minutes of the video you posted. Even if we take that guy's word for it, you're talking about ONE salesperson. One bad actor. That's it. Which company doesn't have asshole sales people? You are making a stronger claim: that Yelp itself is a bad actor. Tha…

You're right, I apologize for implying the presence confirmation bias and I don't mean it as a personal attack. I just wanted to express that when you immediately discredit the anecdotal experience of others in favor of your own anecdotal experience, it may be a sign of confirmation bias. But I guess that kind of implication comes with connotations that I didn't intend.

Basically, I want to draw your attention to the fact that the salesperson in that video did work for Yelp at the time. Doesn't that on its own distinguish the behavior that's happening at yelp with your experience with third party scammers?

Maybe the Wells Fargo scandal from a few years back can be a reference here. If a company is structured in a way where salespeople are incentivized to misbehave for their own personal interest, shouldn't that company be held accountable?

Anyway, you're right that I'm wrong to claim with certainty that Yelp is a bad actor. I don't have proof beyond dealing with 5 star reviews for clients locked behind Yelp's "Not recommended". But any company with a monetization scheme that in practice boils down to cold calling and harrassing small businesses, is a company against which I have no problem jumping on any bandwagon that comes my way.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#456

Post by ex3xu »

notSupplied wrote: post #452
ex3xu wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try this guy for proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67Lh4LE5LY Though if you already have confirmation bias that anyone who complains of a large company of shady behavior is a crazy nut, maybe this conversation chain is simply a waste of time. Without access to Yelp internals, it's always possible to just write it off as hearsay. Especially when, if you read my post, the courts have ruled that this behav…

Just a random point of feedback, but you sound more like the one carrying confirmation bias here. But really, throwing that phrase around in an internet debate is pretty meaningless rhetoric. It takes YEARS of working with someone before I feel like I understand that person's biases well enough to accuse them of such a thing.

You're right. Maybe epistemic closure is a better term. And maybe I need to take some time to evaluate the evidence in context of my own biases before I make baseless accusations. You have to understand that I've internalized articles over a number of years about class action lawsuits against yelp as well as my own experiences dealing with valid 5 star ratings locked behind a Not Recommended filter. But it may be the case that I am wrong and I ought to reconsider the complexity of the situation. Thanks for the input.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#457

Post by chmod775 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #454
chmod775 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did this in response to Google. Their clicks from the google search results has been down for years [1]. What should they have done? Create a service people will actually want to use? They got a penalty for creating a frustrating experience, so they replaced it with another kind of frustrating experience?

"Create a service people will actually want to use?" They did. It worked great and was awesome. One day, a large company changed it's rules removing most of the traffic pointed to it. It had to make changes. One attempt to survive was to move traffic to the app. I don't understand why trying to survive as a business is bad. Maybe people didn't want to click the close button on the app link -- I don't see how this sho…

If they were that great they wouldn't need Google to send a steady stream of new users their way.

People would seek out Yelp directly. But even the search term "Yelp" itself it down roughly 50% since 2014, suggesting that less and less people would actively and directly seek out that page.

When I search "Chinese Restaurant XY" and Google ranks results that would hide the information I seek behind annoying interstitials lowly - then I can't blame them. They're doing something that is in my best interest as their user.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#458

Post by glitchdout »

starchturrets wrote: post #428
nhauz wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one costs money. Is there a free blocker? I use Firefox Focus, but it does not let me add custom elements.

Adguard is free and supports custom elements. As a bonus, it’s open source. These are the rules I use: www.reddit.com##.xpromopill www.reddit.com##.active.xpromopopup www.reddit.com##.amp.snackbar www.reddit.com##.navframe > .xpromominimal.dualpartinterstitial www.reddit.com##.xpromoadfeed

I did not know this was possible! Thank you so much!

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#459

Post by village-idiot »

patrioticaction wrote: post #453
village-idiot wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit gets the runner up trophy here. No Reddit, I am not installing your fucking app. I clicked decline a dozen times in a row, get the hint.

But don't you want to reduce their bandwidth usage?

Nope. Don’t care

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#460

Post by ransom1538 »

chmod775 wrote: post #457
ransom1538 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Create a service people will actually want to use?" They did. It worked great and was awesome. One day, a large company changed it's rules removing most of the traffic pointed to it. It had to make changes. One attempt to survive was to move traffic to the app. I don't understand why trying to survive as a business is bad. Maybe people didn't want to click the close button on the app link -- I don't see how this sho…

If they were that great they wouldn't need Google to send a steady stream of new users their way. People would seek out Yelp directly. But even the search term "Yelp" itself it down roughly 50% since 2014, suggesting that less and less people would actively and directly seek out that page. When I search "Chinese Restaurant XY" and Google ranks results that would hide the information I seek behind annoying interstitia…

"If they were that great they wouldn't need Google to send a steady stream of new users their way."

Right. Like Amazon not needing roads. Or Walgreens needing a working Pharmacological system.

"When I search "Chinese Restaurant XY" and Google ranks results that would hide the information I seek behind annoying interstitials lowly - then I can't blame them. They're doing something that is in my best interest as their user."

Ugh. Yes. That is called a monopoly.

So this is the behavior as GOOGLE:

1) Remove all traffic to site

2) Re-create same site on Google

3) Point all traffic that was in 1) to google.

4) The site will try to move traffic to mobile -- but users will just get upset at the site. Because the interstitial is hard to tap on.

Is this really all they need todo to capture users? Sad.

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