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Apple has removed us from the App Store

blog.rescuetime.com

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Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#151

Post by konschubert »

aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #148
laohu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please re-read the guidelines and the use. No API has been used that wasn't explicitly allowed to be used for said purposes. Location provided location. The public signal that indicates screen off and on was used. Neither was used surreptitiously, rather, used explicitly. Apple says this os OK. They just have an inconsistently applied definition of what qualifies as "location is the primary use".

>Apple says this is OK No, Apple clearly said this is not OK by rejecting the app. This is not a courtroom where you get to debate how the letter of the law should be interpreted. If I invite you to my garden party, but don’t like your behaviour then I can throw you out.

The debate to me seems to be about whether apple is within it's moral rights. The fact that legally they may be able to do whatever they want (modulo anti trust) seems pretty clear.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#152

Post by aaaaaaaaaab »

konschubert wrote: post #151
aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple says this is OK No, Apple clearly said this is not OK by rejecting the app. This is not a courtroom where you get to debate how the letter of the law should be interpreted. If I invite you to my garden party, but don’t like your behaviour then I can throw you out.

The debate to me seems to be about whether apple is within it's moral rights. The fact that legally they may be able to do whatever they want (modulo anti trust) seems pretty clear.

Ok. Then consider the following: can I use this app to track my screen time without giving it always-on location access? No. Therefore the app is not using the location API for its intended purpose. They use it to get unlimited background execution time under the disguise of location tracking.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#153

Post by aaaaaaaaaab »

wool_gather wrote: post #142
aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #127

You were misusing background location updates to periodically run your app in the background. I bet you were also misusing some keychain API or similar, to determine whether the device is locked or not, because there’s no official API for that either. You were misusing multiple APIs and hoped that the reviewers won’t notice. Facebook used to play silent audio in the background to prevent their app from being suspende…

(iOS developer here.) As an iOS user I'm generally very happy with the various app restrictions, because they increase my control over the device and my confidence that apps aren't doing naughty things behind my back. On the other hand, there clearly exist good product ideas* that need more privileges, long-lived background execution being one. There ought to be a way for a proven good actor to get blessed for specia…

If and when general-purpose daemon processes will be allowed, RescueTime can be implemented on iOS again. Right now it’s not possible to implement it while using the existing APIs for their intended purposes.

But then again, I’d highly doubt Apple would ever allow general-purpose daemons on the iPhone. On the iPad Pro, maybe.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#154

Post by anticensor »

tptacek wrote: post #37
danmg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% of that market. The apple app market is not the same as the android app market. They're not in competition with each other. Owners are captive.

That is like saying Hacker News has a monopoly because it is 100% of the Hacker News market.

No, it is like saying news.ycombinator.com has a monopoly because it is 100% of the Hacker News market.

PS: We really need a community-backed hackernews.org

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#155

Post by smurfdog »

This is why we've stopped developing iOS apps years ago. Happened to us once, won't ever happen again. Developing for iOS is extremely dangerous for your business, as Apple may kick your app out any moment for insert random reason here. I couldn't justify exposing my company to this risk anymore. History shows, my decision was perfectly right. Luckily, there are plenty of other business models that don't depend on Apple.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#156

Post by lostmsu »

dwaite wrote: post #76
lostmsu wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did not they explicitly tell what's it for? The title also claims other time-tracking apps were removed, so was is the reason? UPD. I see the title was edited, and they have retracted the others apps claim now. The first question still stands though.

Apple's ToS goes beyond asking the user for consent for a privacy or power-impacting feature; the review process is meant to also verify that the access is for an appropriate reason. This similar to how they ban apps that do cryptocurrency mining in the background. With the exception of a few specific Apple apps (Mail is actually the only one I know of now, and I believe it is more that the Mail app is a renderer of…

My understanding is that RescueTime actually has a feature to show you where did you use apps.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#157

Post by writepub »

amelius wrote: post #106
writepub wrote: post #15

Time for some anti-trust regulations on the app store. In the "mobile apps" market, Apple is an overwhelming monopoly with 66% market share [1]. Some stats: - Total app store market revenues for 1st half (1H) of 2018: ~$33B - Apple's app-store revenue for 1H-2018: $22B - Apple's market share: 66% They constantly abuse their power and stifle competition by: 1. Banning apps (this app, steam streaming, ....) 2. Stifling…

Time for laws on platform economies.

The only reason it is a "platform" is because of lock-down. Imagine if Jobs' original vision of HTML5+JS runtime as the iOS app runtime engine had come true.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#158

Post by r_singh »

rando444 wrote: post #21
CharlesW wrote: post #6

> Critically, using the persistent location API also allows us to use an acknowledged acceptable way to capture when our users have active screen time. They're admitting to using background location to infer screen time, which is clearly "misuse" according to section 2.5.4. Whether the decision is right or wrong, I find it hard to believe that the developer is actually confused by this.

The app has a feature that allows you to see where you are spending your time on your phone. This could be helpful to get an idea about time wasted at work vs. commuting by train or whatever. I'm not going to say it's super useful, but it has a use.. I would categorize this in the same bucket as Snapchat needing your GPS. Anyway, the complaint is that they are using this data for more than features and functionality.…

Exactly, I've always wanted to have an app like that and have been following rescue time since a lot of years now and have aware about it being one of the pioneers in this space.

It's quite sad that apple conveniently are heavy handing them now that they have built in screen time. Users can't really complain cause this functionality is not kind of baked into the phone anyways.

It's impressive and hurtful at the same time, Apple has unprecedented amount of leverage over app developers and app developers should be careful not to cross Apple's path if they don't want their time to go waste.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#159

Post by leereeves »

aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #150
leereeves wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used this app, but it sounds like people who installed the app knew about those features and wanted them. If Apple is preventing developers from providing useful apps for arbitrary technical reasons, that's Apple being bad, not the developer. That's different from uninstall tracking that surprises users in a bad way.

It’s not about surprising the user or not. Ultimately, Apple gets to decide what is allowed and what isn’t. If I make a handwarmer app that purposely runs the CPU at 100% I’m pretty sure Apple would reject that too, even though it would be useful for users.

Why should Apple be allowed to decide what runs on phones owned by other people?

That's like letting appliance makers decide what food people can store or cook, or letting phone makers decide who people can call.

I understand this is the status quo, we can also discuss whether it's right, even if it's currently technically possible and legally permitted.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#160

Post by aaaaaaaaaab »

leereeves wrote: post #159
aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about surprising the user or not. Ultimately, Apple gets to decide what is allowed and what isn’t. If I make a handwarmer app that purposely runs the CPU at 100% I’m pretty sure Apple would reject that too, even though it would be useful for users.

Why should Apple be allowed to decide what runs on phones owned by other people? That's like letting appliance makers decide what food people can store or cook, or letting phone makers decide who people can call. I understand this is the status quo, we can also discuss whether it's right, even if it's currently technically possible and legally permitted.

Actually you can run anything you want, just can’t distribute it via the AppStore. Anyone with a Mac can compile any app themselves and install it via Xcode.

And it’s not like iPhones are being forced onto people. People go out of their way to buy iPhones... Maybe there is some merit to these Draconian rules? Just look at the sorry state of the Google Play Store with all the low-effort adware or outright maliscious crap.

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