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Apple has removed us from the App Store

blog.rescuetime.com

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Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#71

Post by danmg »

scarface74 wrote: post #63
danmg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're using that to a commercial benefit, to the point of being anti-competitive, over other people who are developing for that platform, yes.

So if One Password wanted access to the Secure Enclave should Apple be forced to give it to them? And do you want to set up a “government app review board” to decide on a case by case basis when Apple is denying an app for “competitive reasons”?

The threat of divesting Apple from their app store should be a threat hanging over their heads, if they choose to engage in anti-competitive activities.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#73

Post by pedalpete »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #51

"using the persistent location API also allows us to use an acknowledged acceptable way to capture when our users have active screen time." I am confused, how is screen time correlated with user location? If you want to check if a user is on the go and not using screen then there are other iOS SDK API that you can use to determine that. Are you trying to determine if a user is spending certain time on hhis/her phone…

For example, if you regularly check app A from the coffee shop and spend x amount of time in it vs checking app B at the bus stop and spend y amount of time.

I don't know the people to whom this is a valuable bit of information, but I don't know of the people who really want to know how much time they are spending in different apps either.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#74

Post by mcfedr »

laohu wrote: post #39

It is of note in this case that "misuse" is perfectly arbitrary. The RescueTime app did use location, only locally on the device, to enrich the information provided to users. It also happened to capture screen time, obviously important to the app. Be clear here: Apple has not said this aspect is misuse . Screen time recording is blessed by Apple. There are at least three other apps active in the app store that do the…

Hi, I'm the lead developer of another app in the same space, we've also been blocked from updating our app for several months now. Interesting to see that this is happening to the the whole community of apps that compete with apples own screen time.

The worst answer we've had to our use of the APIs has been "the API might change in the future and your app might stop working" - about the location API

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#75

Post by js4ever »

mcfedr wrote: post #74
laohu wrote: post #39

It is of note in this case that "misuse" is perfectly arbitrary. The RescueTime app did use location, only locally on the device, to enrich the information provided to users. It also happened to capture screen time, obviously important to the app. Be clear here: Apple has not said this aspect is misuse . Screen time recording is blessed by Apple. There are at least three other apps active in the app store that do the…

Hi, I'm the lead developer of another app in the same space, we've also been blocked from updating our app for several months now. Interesting to see that this is happening to the the whole community of apps that compete with apples own screen time. The worst answer we've had to our use of the APIs has been "the API might change in the future and your app might stop working" - about the location API

This remember me when my free music app was kicked out of the store with 17 other free & legal music apps ... the exact same day when Apple music was published... This is why I hate so much Apple and all their products now.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#76

Post by dwaite »

lostmsu wrote: post #44
tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great case of the application that abused a platform location feature --- one of the more privacy-sensitive features on the phone --- to do something privacy-invasive?

Did not they explicitly tell what's it for? The title also claims other time-tracking apps were removed, so was is the reason? UPD. I see the title was edited, and they have retracted the others apps claim now. The first question still stands though.

Apple's ToS goes beyond asking the user for consent for a privacy or power-impacting feature; the review process is meant to also verify that the access is for an appropriate reason.

This similar to how they ban apps that do cryptocurrency mining in the background.

With the exception of a few specific Apple apps (Mail is actually the only one I know of now, and I believe it is more that the Mail app is a renderer of the system mail process) and apps which use particular API (such as VOIP and navigation-related location), you cannot have your app run persistently in the background to preserve power and resources. Using these API has always required you actually be an app in these categories.

Independent of draining battery and tying up the CPU/memory - it sounds like the primary purpose of this app (tracking your phone usage) broke if you didn't consent to a secondary feature (reporting where you were when you used your phone). Which means the app was fundamentally broken. Which isn't a surprise, because the API doesn't let you make this sort of app.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#77

Post by dwaite »

tapoxi wrote: post #20
whalesalad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could it be illegal? If you sold bread in a grocery store and the grocery store decided they preferred their own brand and didn't wanna sell yours anymore... would that be illegal?

What if you moved into a neighborhood that had an exclusive contract with one grocery store (you were kicked out if you bought from elsewhere) and they removed non-store brands?

Something similar - my university changed the dorm policy such that, to stay in my room another year, I was required to purchase a meal plan of 20 meals a week at the new buffet-style cafeteria to live there.

I moved into an apartment.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#78

Post by peteretep »

laohu wrote: post #39

It is of note in this case that "misuse" is perfectly arbitrary. The RescueTime app did use location, only locally on the device, to enrich the information provided to users. It also happened to capture screen time, obviously important to the app. Be clear here: Apple has not said this aspect is misuse . Screen time recording is blessed by Apple. There are at least three other apps active in the app store that do the…

Respectfully, your arguments are weak, and you're playing the crowd with bluster rather than laying out compelling arguments. I've been a RescueTime user before, and it's a real shame it's not allowed on iOS, but again, your arguments here are not strong at all.

> It also happened to capture screen time, obviously important to the app. Be clear here: Apple has not said this aspect is misuse.

In your article, you link directly to a clause:

"Your app is misusing background location for purposes other than location-related features and functionality."

It would seem Apple are directly telling you that this aspect is misuse, on account of they call it that, and the actual disagreement here is "We do not ... agree that this is “misusing” the method". Apple's position seems clear.

> Screen time recording is blessed by Apple

What's your evidence for this? That they provide it themselves? There are plenty of things that Apple bless for themselves to do via apps, and not for 3rd parties to do. Is your evidence that the rules aren't being applied consistently? That's not evidence, that's an appeal to fairness.

> Apple's issue here is there is no consistency for "misuse" where misuse is defined as location being secondary or primary to the API use.

This seems an odd sentence to say just after "Apple has not said this aspect is misuse".

You argument boils down to "everyone else is doing it so why can't we". A reply to your comment shows that Apple appears to be cracking down in general, and as a well-known brand, it shouldn't be that surprising that you're getting targeted first.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#79

Post by cromwellian »

ancorevard wrote: post #23
writepub wrote: post #15

Time for some anti-trust regulations on the app store. In the "mobile apps" market, Apple is an overwhelming monopoly with 66% market share [1]. Some stats: - Total app store market revenues for 1st half (1H) of 2018: ~$33B - Apple's app-store revenue for 1H-2018: $22B - Apple's market share: 66% They constantly abuse their power and stifle competition by: 1. Banning apps (this app, steam streaming, ....) 2. Stifling…

This is not an abuse of power. This is looking out for their users' privacy. I would have thought most people at this time would know that Apple does not take lightly a situation where an app is sending lots of privacy related user behavior to some kind of server somewhere. At a minimum, store this analytics on the phone only. But then again, you may use APIs for reasons other than their intended purpose.

Shouldn't I have the choice? If you paid $1000 for a phone, and were using and enjoying this app, and suddenly, it can no longer be updated, because Apple says they want to 'protect' me, why can't I be given the control to decide whether or not I want this protection?

After all, there are permissions dialogs. If an app needs location data, and asks me for it, why can't I decide to grant permission of the app to use it for novel new use cases like screen time management?

This not only inhibits innovation, it takes away my own agency and ownership of my, very expensive, device.

This kind of nanny state, closed source, locked down stuff used to cause everyone to rebel on HN. We'd have people quoting Richard Stallman, etc.

These days, it seems like HN has abandoned a lot of its original culture, and is totally willing to cede control of computing to a proprietary, locked down, centralized control mechanism that permits no exploration or hacking, and certainly no forking.

Can't we protect users AND allow them to make informed decisions? What if I want to use a battery draining service? There's lots of games that will nuke your battery very fast. Hell, the Camera app on my iPhone 6 used to drain my battery fast.

And hanging over this is the spectre that once again, this is Apple killing off third party apps that compete with iOS 12's own built in screen time management features.

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