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A note to our employees

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391–400 of 421 posts

Re: A note to our employees

#391

One of the more interesting pieces is buried in the linked PDF: "Excessive alcohol: Harassment is never acceptable and alcohol is never an excuse. But one of the most common factors among the harassment complaints made today at Google is that the perpetrator had been drinking (~20% of cases). Our policy is clear: Excessive consumption of alcohol is not permitted when you are at work, performing Google business, or at…

In the early 90s, I was told by an IBMer in the US that if he was cought drinking beer in lunch time (even outside in a restaurant), he could be fired, no question asked.

Apparently it was a paternalistic policy that came directly from Watson, who not only banned alcohol during work time including lunch, but also paid the wage on Monday to somehow honder spending it all in alcohol over the weekend.

Re: A note to our employees

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Does no one realize that this claim is not based on any evidence whatsoever? And yet it remains an interesting thought experiment, doesn't it? Didn't it work on Reddit, in which they found that driving hateful communities out raised the level of discourse? And a possible way to structure society. Hitler himself admitted that had the Nazis not been tolerated, they wouldn't have gained the foothold they did. Not only…

> And yet it remains an interesting thought experiment, doesn't it? Sure, but that doesn't make it a sound policy for real political discourse. > Didn't it work on Reddit, in which they found that driving hateful communities out raised the level of discourse? Or did it simply fuel a growing narrative of censorship and persecution which is driving the counter-PC culture and electing people like Trump? I don't think an…

>Sure, but that doesn't make it a sound policy for real political discourse.

I can't see why not.

>Or did it simply fuel a growing narrative of censorship and persecution which is driving the counter-PC culture and electing people like Trump?

No. And besides, on the logic that it might make people angry or convinced of their delusional views therefore we shouldn't do it is very poor reasoning.

>because these changes can and do have negative externalities.

In the same way that naive tolerance does?

>had the majority of the country not been sympathetic to Nazi principles, then Nazis wouldn't have gotten elected?

No.

"Only one thing could have broken our movement – if the adversary had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed with extreme brutality the nucleus of our new movement." (A Hitler at the 1933 Nuremberg Nazi Party rally)

"If our opponents had been clever, considering that political weapons were so unevenly distributed, they could have undoubtedly found ways and opportunities to make our success impossible." (J Goebbels, 1934)

"If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work" (J Goebbels, 1934)

>Tolerance is justified by the recognition that all people have intrinsic value ala Kant

Not in democratic society; can you point me to which Kantian thinkers (including Kant himself!) whose thought formed the basis of any modern state? Tolerance as we know it emerged only with the emergence of widespread democracy after the French revolution beginning in Western Europe and the American revolution in the New World. Both republics founded on democracy (and therefore tolerance), not a Kantian maxim. As Marcuse said in 1965,

"Moreover, in endlessly dragging debates over the media, the stupid opinion is treated with the same respect as the intelligent one, the misinformed may talk as long as the informed, and propaganda rides along with education, truth with falsehood. This pure toleration of sense and nonsense is justified by the democratic argument that nobody, neither group nor individual, is in possession of the truth and capable of defining what is right and wrong, good and bad. Therefore, all contesting opinions must be submitted to 'the people' for its deliberation and choice. But I have already suggested that the democratic argument implies a necessary condition, namely, that the people must be capable of deliberating and choosing on the basis of knowledge, that they must have access to authentic information, and that, on this. basis, their evaluation must be the result of autonomous thought."

>The only time violence is justified is in response to violence.

I disagree, and as I said earlier, it's no crime to disagree with liberal dogma like this. But if we must go this route, what does violence say of structural violence, for instance?

Re: A note to our employees

#393
post #63

I'm not a native speaker, but doesn't "We will update and expand our mandatory sexual harassment training" mean that trainings teach how to do sexual harassment, not prevent it? Shouldn't it be "prevention of sexual harassment"?

English is weird and often backwards - eg the fire department are in charge of removing fires, not creating them :P

Re: A note to our employees

#394
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Googler] This is how I feel when I see an increased emphasis on training. Making a bunch of leaf-node employees like me sit through more simple online training is not going to fix the problem we have (although it can't hurt). It doesn't address the harassment that comes from extreme differences in power and a lack of accountability. Still, I am cautiously optimistic about today's announced changes.

It's the neoliberal response to everything. Make cosmetic, progressive changes but don't address underlying structural inequalities between groups.

I would say it is the response by any group in power, corporate, politics, whatever.

They want to makes some news they're doing something, but regardless of organization or politics, the rules often don't apply to those in power.

Re: A note to our employees

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already single out certain social things as just not a good idea in the workplace/events even though its common socially: public displays of affection, having lots of kids around, single-sex activities... Its isolating/disruptive if you can't/won't take part. Its unfair when based on things not in the job description (relationships/kids/gender respectively). I don't see why alcohol (excludes non-drinkers) or team-…

Having lots of kids around? One of my favorite jobs had a group of parents who would come in on the weekend for play dates (in designated areas). The company supported them, often organizing age appripriate maker type events.

Its not the thing, its the impact on the "normal" 9-5 worker. Its great that the company did that on the weekend, but they clearly didn't think it was good during the normal work week, which was my point.

Re: A note to our employees

#396
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already single out certain social things as just not a good idea in the workplace/events even though its common socially: public displays of affection, having lots of kids around, single-sex activities... Its isolating/disruptive if you can't/won't take part. Its unfair when based on things not in the job description (relationships/kids/gender respectively). I don't see why alcohol (excludes non-drinkers) or team-…

I don’t see how the presence of alcohol excludes others? Most places that serve alcohol are perfectly capable of serving juice.

Its not the presense of the thing or the ability to decline, its the impact on those not taking part. If colleagues consuming alcohol exclude non-drinkers by their intentional or unintentional actions or make them feel like less of a team member (by say getting real drunk which is always annoying to non-drinkers), and drinking is not in the job description, then companies should not make it a part of a work event (IMO).

Re: A note to our employees

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already single out certain social things as just not a good idea in the workplace/events even though its common socially: public displays of affection, having lots of kids around, single-sex activities... Its isolating/disruptive if you can't/won't take part. Its unfair when based on things not in the job description (relationships/kids/gender respectively). I don't see why alcohol (excludes non-drinkers) or team-…

By the time you've excluded all the possible activities that someone could find isolating, you've got a pretty boring work environment. Here's the box you will be working in. Don't forget to turn off the light when you leave Friday.

> By the time you've excluded all the possible activities that someone could find isolating, you've got a pretty boring work environment.

Or you could list the attributes that you expect people to have during the hiring process and then decline to hire those that don't fit the company's culture.

Re: A note to our employees

#398
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. It seems like either you're responsible for your behavior, or you are not. Having a first-offense warning just shows that the company isn't really serious about dealing with the problem.

Zero Tolerance Policies, generally also mean Zero Thinking Policies. The punishment should fit the crime, and most situations are warrant only a warning or a minor punishment - and if behavior improves, all is well.

We seem to be backing off of the whole "personal responsibility" thing. If you start off with the policy that "we trust all of our employees to behave like mature adults" and they don't, they've demonstrated that you can't trust them, no?

If you have that policy and then start down the road of first-offense warnings, or trying to match the punishment to the crime, you end up in exactly the place where a lot of companies are now. (This isn't a new idea; it's how companies have always operated.) Without a specific set of policies, the company literally cannot do anything right: If you fire someone because his coworkers say they cannot work with him, everyone starts frothing at the mouth. If you pay someone else to leave because he's too important to fire, everyone digs out their pitchforks and torches. If you do nothing, it blows up in your face, spectacularly.

Re: A note to our employees

#399
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandatory sexual harassment training is performed by every employer in California who doesn't want to get sued for someone getting sexually harassed at work. The purpose of it is usually not educating people, but providing a liability shield. Juries don't look kindly when Billy was harassed by his manager, and Billy's employer couldn't even be arsed to put Billy through a two-hour course, that spells out why harassme…

Something I don't understand is why not for every other law then? Why does this segment of the law get a mandatory training session every year?

Widespread feminism amongst courts, HR, employees and consumers. HR matters are almost fully handled by feminists who believe in rape culture. The courts, specially in California, are ideologically biased to believe the accuser and punish everyone involved. Merely a sexual harassment accusation is sufficient to provide a catastrophic blown to the reputation of the accused and the company. In other words, Google has social pressure from consumers, judicial pressure from courts and internal pressure from employees, all derived from feminist beliefs, which ultimately result in a financial incentive to stand against the issue.
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