Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 112 posts

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#101

Post by gamblor956 »

leesec wrote: post #88
gamblor956 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your greatly overstating Tesla's advantages. EV drivetrains aren't quite drop in replacements but they are close enough that the first modern commercial EVs... including Tesla...were simply converted ICE vehicles. Also, Tesla doesn't make batteries, Panasonic does. Tesla just assembles them. Panasonic also sells batteries to Tesla's competition. And based on Tesla's past issues with paying vendors, if they miss even…

Yes those cars were converted ICE vehicles... in 2008. Sounds like a multi year advantage to me.

No fewer than a dozen car companies are planning to launch more advanced EVs than Tesla within the next 3 years.

Tesla can't afford the capital investment it needs to compete with that generation of competition, largely because it executed this generation's launch so poorly.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#102

Post by solarkraft »

TekMol wrote: post #91
mdasen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a key point when considering Tesla stock. In order to justify the current price, Tesla really has to become the next Toyota. Volkswagen is an $85B auto maker and the second most valuable. Tesla is already a $60B auto maker. If Tesla becomes the next Volkswagen in 10 years, they will have gained 42% returns over 10 years or about 3.6% annual returns. Given the high risk that Tesla won't become the next Volkswa…

If Tesla becomes the next Volkswagen in 10 years, they will have gained 42% returns over 10 years. And if they become a trillion dollar company, they will have gained 1566%. They are in AI and in Solar. Two giant waves ahead of us. AI will be bigger then the web. Solar might too. The 'Google of AI' will be way bigger then Google. Given the high risk that Tesla won't become the next Volkswagen, it seems over-priced. T…

> AI will be bigger then the web. Solar might too. The 'Google of AI' will be way bigger then Google.

My marketing bullshit sense is tingling.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#103

Post by solarkraft »

thesimon wrote: post #47
LeonM wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are able, but they don't do it. The only full electric car BMW currently produces is the wacky i3, which doesn't appeal to the average BMW buyer. For some reason all car manufacturers (except tsla) build really lame, goofy, small electric cars, why can't we just have a traditional luxury saloon? The current 5 and 3-series are not offered in an full electric version. Which means that maybe, if we are lucky, there…

>For some reason all car manufacturers (except tsla) build really lame, goofy, small electric cars, why can't we just have a traditional luxury saloon? Because maybe high-quality saloons with expensive batteries are way to expensive for most consumers?

And yet expensive cars sell. Additionally the margins can be higher if the selling price is higher (and the product more about emotion), so there is more budget to fit in a good battery.

This is the entire reason the Model S was built the way it was.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#104

Post by greglindahl »

gamblor956 wrote: post #78
013a wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond the hype, I think it's feasible to believe that Tesla has a massive multi-year advantage that other car companies will be playing catchup to for a very long time. Having the global manufacturing infrastructure of someone like Ford or VAG certainly seems like an advantage, but retrofitting that infrastructure to manufacture electric vehicles isn't exactly trivial or cheap. Then consider you also need to "retrof…

Your greatly overstating Tesla's advantages. EV drivetrains aren't quite drop in replacements but they are close enough that the first modern commercial EVs... including Tesla...were simply converted ICE vehicles. Also, Tesla doesn't make batteries, Panasonic does. Tesla just assembles them. Panasonic also sells batteries to Tesla's competition. And based on Tesla's past issues with paying vendors, if they miss even…

The Roadster wasn't a "converted ICE vehicle". Only the outer shell was from Lotus. That's a relatively small % of the weight and value of the car.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#105

Post by greglindahl »

gamblor956 wrote: post #100
013a wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the first ones were converted ICE vehicles. I could take a lawnmover and make it electric, that doesn't mean it would feasibly compete with a true designed-from-scratch electric lawnmower. Those first EVs designed like that sucked. Seriously. Horrible range. Bad part fit. The roadster in a Lotus body was a fast car with decent range, but it also weighed almost nothing, had two seats, and no storage capacity…

For roughly the same price (~$40k), a Model 3 will do 310, and it will do those miles with substantially better performance and AWD (and also not look like a squished minivan, beside the point). Categorically false, as the Model 3s do not currently sell for that amount with that range. Cheapest model 3 is $46k, without upgrades. Can't find anything about the electric-only etron, which hasn't been released yet. The hy…

The mid-range Model 3 is $46,000 before US federal and state tax incentives. "Categorically false" appears to be an exaggeration, but that fits with your overall posting quality.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#106

Post by leesec »

gamblor956 wrote: post #101
leesec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes those cars were converted ICE vehicles... in 2008. Sounds like a multi year advantage to me.

No fewer than a dozen car companies are planning to launch more advanced EVs than Tesla within the next 3 years. Tesla can't afford the capital investment it needs to compete with that generation of competition, largely because it executed this generation's launch so poorly.

Lol honestly are you trolling?

Tesla has 50% of the EV market share and is by far the leader in tech. I would love to see anything even close to the specs of the new roadster. Or honestly if any company has any plans for anything as good as the Model S that would be great.

And wouldn't 3 years away give Tesla a multi-year advantage, as claimed?

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#107

Post by leesec »

gamblor956 wrote: post #100
013a wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the first ones were converted ICE vehicles. I could take a lawnmover and make it electric, that doesn't mean it would feasibly compete with a true designed-from-scratch electric lawnmower. Those first EVs designed like that sucked. Seriously. Horrible range. Bad part fit. The roadster in a Lotus body was a fast car with decent range, but it also weighed almost nothing, had two seats, and no storage capacity…

For roughly the same price (~$40k), a Model 3 will do 310, and it will do those miles with substantially better performance and AWD (and also not look like a squished minivan, beside the point). Categorically false, as the Model 3s do not currently sell for that amount with that range. Cheapest model 3 is $46k, without upgrades. Can't find anything about the electric-only etron, which hasn't been released yet. The hy…

Really, they would? Then why are they all buying Teslas?

Also you're crazy if you think either of those cars are 'nicer' than a Model 3, which has rave reviews from its customers and critics.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#108

Post by dplgk »

cache_miss wrote: post #16

As a former BMW fanboy, here's my take: 1) Over the past decade, BMW has snuffed the enthusiast/semi-enthusiast crowd to cater to mainstream luxury buyers. 2) Anecdotally, I've noticed that the Tesla buyers of today were the BMW/Audi buyers of yesterday. Who's still interested in new BMWs?

I bought a 2013 hard top convertible with 40k miles for $20k. Couldn't be happier. Console has real knobs, too.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#109

Post by ckastner »

moorhosj wrote: post #86
ckastner wrote: post #10

BMW reported profits of €8.7bn for the year 2017. [1] Tesla stockholders must be very, very optimistic about its future performance when they value Tesla more than an already established, immensely profitable player. [1] https://phys.org/news/2018-03-bmw-net-profit-bn-euros.html

AMZN has reported $6.15 billion of profits over the past year. [1] AAPL has reported $185 billion of profits over the past year (30x that of AMZN). [2] AMZN has an $865 billion market cap and AAPL has a $980 billion market cap. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AMZN/financials?p=AMZN [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL/financials?p=AAPL

(Side note: your profits for AAPL are way off, they should be around $58 billion)

This is an interesting comparison, but I don't think it is an applicable one.

Amazon and Apple run vastly different business, whereas BMW and Tesla compete entirely within the same market (even market segment).

Furthermore, Amazon is infamous for being an outlier with regards to profit reporting, but this was generally understood to be a financially engineered situation rather than a lack of success. If I recall correctly, in 2016 or so AWS became so successful that the profits it generated couldn't be engineered away anymore, hence why we're seeing billions of profits (after 20 or so years without them).

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#110

Post by LeonM »

hcg wrote: post #94
LeonM wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who's still interested in new BMWs? This. Exactly this. I've overheard potential buyers (not just at BMW, but all car dealerships) asking questions like: - Can I get this car in an all-electric version? > No - Can I get this car with AWD (dual motor) > No - Can I get this car with autopilot > No - Will this car receive updates over the air? > No - Does the base model come with 300+ HP? > No - Can I control this car…

They should really just have anyone who asks if they can control the car using an app tossed out.

Being able to pre-heat the cabin, or checking the charge status on a phone is a reason to be 'tossed out' of the dealership? Boy, you'd be a good car salesman!
Post reply on HN