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Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#81

Post by jessaustin »

LeonM wrote: post #64
thesimon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some reason all car manufacturers (except tsla) build really lame, goofy, small electric cars, why can't we just have a traditional luxury saloon? Because maybe high-quality saloons with expensive batteries are way to expensive for most consumers?

Depends on the market. I live in the Netherlands (next to Germany) and even though NL is one of the most expensive countries to own a car, luxury german cars are very common here. So are Tesla's by the way.

I've never been to NL and never knew that it was expensive to own a car there. However, having learned that, I am certainly not surprised to also learn that many of the cars there are fancy and expensive. Wealthy people have more fancy and expensive cars than poor people. If none of the poor have cars, a greater portion of existing cars will be fancy and expensive. Singapore was the same, when I lived there. That isn't to say that all vehicles were luxury. Workmen still need work trucks, after all.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#82

Post by jessaustin »

whtswrong wrote: post #40
arcticfox wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their sales have been growing for years. Looks like they just posted a solid ~5% YoY growth for the last quarter, while TSLA posted ~125%. It's clearly an interesting difference. Valuation is the metric that summarizes all of the other metrics. https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/bamxf/fundamental/revenue-... https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/TSLA/fundamental/revenue-q...

> Looks like they just posted a solid ~5% YoY growth for the last quarter, while TSLA posted ~125%. It's clearly an interesting difference. Do you really expect a 100+ year old company that sells 3 million vehicles annually to be growing 125% annually? Where would the cars go?

If you're trying to convince investors that BMW is undervalued relative to Tesla, this isn't a good argument.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#83

Post by gamblor956 »

abledon wrote: post #34
cache_miss wrote: post #16

As a former BMW fanboy, here's my take: 1) Over the past decade, BMW has snuffed the enthusiast/semi-enthusiast crowd to cater to mainstream luxury buyers. 2) Anecdotally, I've noticed that the Tesla buyers of today were the BMW/Audi buyers of yesterday. Who's still interested in new BMWs?

Tesla is the new status symbol. Tech is in today. If you are an elite business man and don't have the highend flagship phone, either pixel 3 or iphone XR etc... you are not respected. Similarly if you don't have the coolest and most high tech car (Tesla), you are not respected.

Interesting. I work in LA, and Tesla's are already passe in the entertainment, music, and sports industries. If you still drive a Tesla, it means you weren't on the waitlist for the Jaguar i-PACE. Executives are already bragging about preordering the Porsche Taycan.

Having ridden in every model Tesla and test-driven an i-PACE, Tesla should be terrified. The i-PACE doesn't have the range or acceleration of a Tesla, but everything else about the car--including, most importantly, ride comfort (this is LA, after all...0 to 60 speed is irrelevant in rush hour traffic)--is miles ahead of what Tesla can muster.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#85

Post by icebraining »

thepangolino wrote: post #46
LeonM wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are able, but they don't do it. The only full electric car BMW currently produces is the wacky i3, which doesn't appeal to the average BMW buyer. For some reason all car manufacturers (except tsla) build really lame, goofy, small electric cars, why can't we just have a traditional luxury saloon? The current 5 and 3-series are not offered in an full electric version. Which means that maybe, if we are lucky, there…

This is something that also always boggled my mind. One of the most expensive parts on an electric car are the batteries. No matter how cheap you try to make your car, you'll be set back about 20k just with the batteries. At this point, why even bother trying to go for the lower end.

You can still go for the lower end if you sell based on the total monthly car costs. Many people see what they can afford based on the monthly loan payments rather than the total cost, and if they save more on fuel than what they pay extra on the loan, it's a good trade. But that doesn't work if the extra niceties push the loan value over that line.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#86

Post by moorhosj »

ckastner wrote: post #10

BMW reported profits of €8.7bn for the year 2017. [1] Tesla stockholders must be very, very optimistic about its future performance when they value Tesla more than an already established, immensely profitable player. [1] https://phys.org/news/2018-03-bmw-net-profit-bn-euros.html

AMZN has reported $6.15 billion of profits over the past year. [1]

AAPL has reported $185 billion of profits over the past year (30x that of AMZN). [2]

AMZN has an $865 billion market cap and AAPL has a $980 billion market cap.

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AMZN/financials?p=AMZN

[2] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL/financials?p=AAPL

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#87

Post by mcguire »

sorrymate wrote: post #45
rchaud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla stockholders must be very, very optimistic about its future performance or about their ability to flip the stock to the next buyer while the going is still good.

Not true. We are not all short sellers.

Speculators != short sellers.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#88

Post by leesec »

gamblor956 wrote: post #78
013a wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond the hype, I think it's feasible to believe that Tesla has a massive multi-year advantage that other car companies will be playing catchup to for a very long time. Having the global manufacturing infrastructure of someone like Ford or VAG certainly seems like an advantage, but retrofitting that infrastructure to manufacture electric vehicles isn't exactly trivial or cheap. Then consider you also need to "retrof…

Your greatly overstating Tesla's advantages. EV drivetrains aren't quite drop in replacements but they are close enough that the first modern commercial EVs... including Tesla...were simply converted ICE vehicles. Also, Tesla doesn't make batteries, Panasonic does. Tesla just assembles them. Panasonic also sells batteries to Tesla's competition. And based on Tesla's past issues with paying vendors, if they miss even…

Yes those cars were converted ICE vehicles... in 2008. Sounds like a multi year advantage to me.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#89

Post by falcolas »

Retric wrote: post #44
falcolas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla 3 base model is not in production right now. Only the higher priced models are. I'm sure they'll eventually get to it, but you're comparing a model that is available to buy today with one which is not.

Sure, in practice you can even get a 2019 Bolt for 9k under MSRP becase nobody wants them. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747922437/overview... Tesla may or may not start base model production in Q1 2019, but availability is not really helping the Bolt sell.

Cars almost always sell under MSRP - because there's a middleman involved. For example: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/750619576/overview...

"Nobody wants one" is also hyperbolic - Chevy releases sale numbers, and while not top-of-the-line, they're also not 0.

Re: Tesla (TSLA) surpasses BMW's valuation as one soars and the other slips

#90

Post by Retric »

falcolas wrote: post #89
Retric wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in practice you can even get a 2019 Bolt for 9k under MSRP becase nobody wants them. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747922437/overview... Tesla may or may not start base model production in Q1 2019, but availability is not really helping the Bolt sell.

Cars almost always sell under MSRP - because there's a middleman involved. For example: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/750619576/overview... "Nobody wants one" is also hyperbolic - Chevy releases sale numbers, and while not top-of-the-line, they're also not 0.

Depends on the car and when you buy it.

Some high demand cars sell over MSRP. Seeing deep discounts at the end of a model year is common when trying to shift inventory or when dealing with very high margin trim levels. Advertising 26% under MSRP for a base 2019 model in 2018 is a rather extreme case.

PS: For some actual numbers: GM delivered 3,949 Bolt EVs during the last three months in the US from 6,710 units during the same period last year. In automotive sales terms that's very close to zero. https://electrek.co/2018/10/03/chevy-bolt-ev-sales-slumping-...

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