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Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

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Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#61

Post by badestrand »

chvid wrote: post #39
osdiab wrote: post #23

The more web development I’ve done the more I’ve swung back to just writing CSS myself rather than depending on CSS frameworks; I’ve ended up seeing these less as ways to accelerate development for a team that is skilled at frontend, but instead as a way for people who don’t like styling or have little experience in frontend development/low design sense to style things reasonably. But I keep seeing frontend framework…

I have come to believe the same. Plus I have seen really complex and unfruitful css when a project starts customizing and extending ie Bootstrap.

I never understood how people could use bootstrap with custom designs. It gives you CSS and JS for so many elements and classes so if you want it your way then half your CSS is just undoing (like `margin-left: 0` or `font-size: inherit`) their styles.

Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#62

Post by me_bx »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #22
tomcam wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like fast, small web pages because not everyone has a broadband connection at all times. Can you tell me what other mature, tested, well-supported CSS frameworks have a feature set that large in less than 25% of Bootstrap's size?

https://purecss.io/ http://getskeleton.com/ https://tachyons.io/ https://bulma.io/ https://picnicss.com/ https://www.muicss.com/ [EDIT] - BTW, I mean this with less snark and more did-you-know-all-these-existed? I knew of purecss & skeleton (and I've forgotten a few, because it used to be very common to see these), and I've seen bulma before but some others were new to me (and I favorited them to give a try on some r…

Skeleton is not maintained anymore.

Skeleton-framework is one of the more up-to-day forks, which kept the original philosophy: https://skeleton-framework.github.io/

Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#64

Post by fareesh »

I generally like to see a "kitchen sink" page with everything from the framework in addition to the option of having to go through the various parts and discovering whether they exist and what the defaults look like. I don't know if this is a popular opinion, but if so it would be nice if it became the de-facto practice when these are released.

This applies to all frameworks pretty much - if your web framework supports out of the box internationalization, caching, authentication, etc. the best way to sell me on it is for you to release a demo with all the bells and whistles, written with the conventions, folder structure, architecture, etc. that you advocate.

Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#65

Post by Vanderson »

osdiab wrote: post #23

The more web development I’ve done the more I’ve swung back to just writing CSS myself rather than depending on CSS frameworks; I’ve ended up seeing these less as ways to accelerate development for a team that is skilled at frontend, but instead as a way for people who don’t like styling or have little experience in frontend development/low design sense to style things reasonably. But I keep seeing frontend framework…

I find the critical difference is length of time committed to a project. For my core business interfaces I use my own framework developed and refined over many years.

For front end website development I just recently gave up and decided to use Bootstrap. (not implemented yet, just decided it recently) Mainly so that any web designer can jump in on the site and be productive with it, not just me.

I don't want to use my personal framework for sites that others will have to work with because onboarding is too much work for them and I am constantly improving my framework. But for my own work you couldn't pay me enough to use someone else's framework.

Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#66

Post by Touche »

avip wrote: post #48
osdiab wrote: post #23

The more web development I’ve done the more I’ve swung back to just writing CSS myself rather than depending on CSS frameworks; I’ve ended up seeing these less as ways to accelerate development for a team that is skilled at frontend, but instead as a way for people who don’t like styling or have little experience in frontend development/low design sense to style things reasonably. But I keep seeing frontend framework…

As a "non-fluent CSS user", I find it challenging and frustrating to maintain visual consistency and cross-browser compatibility without frameworks. I totally appreciate the fact it's me being lazy to really learn CSS who is at fault. Think of it like different construction methods - you can build something, let's say the Pyramids, or you can take something already built and beautiful, but is not what you need, and s…

I think you're probably still thinking about CSS as it was 5 years ago. When you had to do weird hacks to get things the way you wanted them. Modern CSS is much easier.

In fact, if you are sticking .row and .column everywhere you are doing considerably more work than just to define a grid layout using display: grid once in your CSS, and then just use semantic HTML thereafter.

Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#67

Post by trixn »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #56
trixn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like that concept of essentially inlining styles in the class attribute. It is just a misuse of html classes. Class names should be used sparingly and describe the semantics of an element rather than its visual appearance. It should be something like class="button submit disabled" instead of class="f6 link dim br1 ph3 pv2 mb2 dib white bg-black". If anything these styles should be exposed as sass mix-ins that…

button is a tag, submit and disabled are tag attributes -- surely you don't need these classes, they're either superfluous or you're not doing semantic HTML.

I agree that you could in a lot of cases get along without these classes. But sometimes you want e.g. an anchor acting as a button in a web application. Or you want a button element with browser styles. You could argue that this is also already an anti-pattern but it does way less harm then leaking inline styles into the namespace and it is still semantic. Also this was just an example (maybe not the best one) to illustrate my point that class names should be semantic and not express solely presentational attributes. The later is what styles are there for.

Especially in a javascript driven web application you may want to select all "buttons that are disabled". But you never want to select elements that "have a rounded border of 2 px and a grey background and italic font style and....". This takes class names ad absurdum.

Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#68

Post by cies »

Vanderson wrote: post #65
osdiab wrote: post #23

The more web development I’ve done the more I’ve swung back to just writing CSS myself rather than depending on CSS frameworks; I’ve ended up seeing these less as ways to accelerate development for a team that is skilled at frontend, but instead as a way for people who don’t like styling or have little experience in frontend development/low design sense to style things reasonably. But I keep seeing frontend framework…

I find the critical difference is length of time committed to a project. For my core business interfaces I use my own framework developed and refined over many years. For front end website development I just recently gave up and decided to use Bootstrap. (not implemented yet, just decided it recently) Mainly so that any web designer can jump in on the site and be productive with it, not just me. I don't want to use m…

> Mainly so that any web designer can jump in on the site and be productive with it, not just me.

This is why I think CSS FWs (but also web FWs) are often preferred. At some point a large'ish team should be able to dive in to the project, get some shit done, and more on to other work. This get reeeealy hard without a high degree of standardization. FWs are primarily a means of standardization for me.

Re: Spectre.css – A Lightweight, Responsive and Modern CSS Framework

#70

Post by reacweb »

avip wrote: post #48
osdiab wrote: post #23

The more web development I’ve done the more I’ve swung back to just writing CSS myself rather than depending on CSS frameworks; I’ve ended up seeing these less as ways to accelerate development for a team that is skilled at frontend, but instead as a way for people who don’t like styling or have little experience in frontend development/low design sense to style things reasonably. But I keep seeing frontend framework…

As a "non-fluent CSS user", I find it challenging and frustrating to maintain visual consistency and cross-browser compatibility without frameworks. I totally appreciate the fact it's me being lazy to really learn CSS who is at fault. Think of it like different construction methods - you can build something, let's say the Pyramids, or you can take something already built and beautiful, but is not what you need, and s…

I always find it difficult to write css. The fact that this framework is half broken on Microsoft edge 41.16299.726.0 is a good incitation to use reputable frameworks instead of trying to create it myself.
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