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Ask HN: What prevents Microsoft from adding a 'secure mode' to combat cheating?

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Ask HN: What prevents Microsoft from adding a 'secure mode' to combat cheating?

#1

Post by RandomTisk »

Could Microsoft (using them as an example since gaming is my focus) implement something in the kernel so that applications can "opt in" at the request of the user to be isolated from other processes?

Imagine I run a game server and demand that players who play on it must put their client into secure mode where even if they have root or admin rights, they can't read or write to the memory of the secure process.

Is there any technical or other reason why MS doesn't provide a secure layer inside of windows for applications like online games?

Re: Ask HN: What prevents Microsoft from adding a 'secure mode' to combat cheating?

#4

Post by FavouriteColour »

There is no way your game server can verify that the clients are actually running in a hypothetical secure mode.

Any calculation or data that client could send to your server could equally be calculated or sent by a hacked copy running in an insecure environment.

Re: Ask HN: What prevents Microsoft from adding a 'secure mode' to combat cheating?

#5

Post by RandomBK »

FavouriteColour wrote: post #4

There is no way your game server can verify that the clients are actually running in a hypothetical secure mode. Any calculation or data that client could send to your server could equally be calculated or sent by a hacked copy running in an insecure environment.

Not necessarily. If TPMs/Trusted Execution Cores come into play, Microsoft can ensure that only trusted software can understand server communications. Most modern systems already have the hardware for this, as it is required for Secure Boot.

See: Netflix 4K requiring Kaby Lake processors for their on-die DRM solution.

Re: Ask HN: What prevents Microsoft from adding a 'secure mode' to combat cheating?

#8

Post by Crosseye_Jack »

They are working on such a tech. It’s called TruePlay and already exists for UWP games.

As much as a recall it’s not as much Anti Cheat but anti tamper that could be used to detect cheating and then be used to disable access to online gaming or just shutdown the game right there and then.

In its current form it much ask you for permission to monitor your game and is only available for UWP titles and I have yet to be pestered about such premission though the only recent UWP game I currently play is the latest Forza Horizon.

Re: Ask HN: What prevents Microsoft from adding a 'secure mode' to combat cheating?

#9

Post by Rjevski »

RandomBK wrote: post #5
FavouriteColour wrote: post #4

There is no way your game server can verify that the clients are actually running in a hypothetical secure mode. Any calculation or data that client could send to your server could equally be calculated or sent by a hacked copy running in an insecure environment.

Not necessarily. If TPMs/Trusted Execution Cores come into play, Microsoft can ensure that only trusted software can understand server communications. Most modern systems already have the hardware for this, as it is required for Secure Boot. See: Netflix 4K requiring Kaby Lake processors for their on-die DRM solution.

The only way for this to work would be for Microsoft to provide the hardware to begin with. As it stands, all the "security" technologies are still under the control of the user, which means the only barrier is the time it takes to reverse-engineer how they work.

> Netflix 4K requiring Kaby Lake processors for their on-die DRM solution.

Just a matter of time before it's reverse engineered. It's not secure by any means. You can prove this by using the same technologies to allow anyone to download (but not use, due to DRM) a private key associated with a lot of cryptocurrency, and see how little time it takes before someone steals the money.

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