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Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

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Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#51

Post by zjaffee »

claydavisss wrote: post #41
taurath wrote: post #4

This coupled with the Amazon news is starting to get distressing. With the amount of companies that copycat them it’s like the rich are getting richer and the economic benefits are still going to be concentrated only in the most affluent cities. The rest of the country desperately needs real industry and good paying jobs - and will go to huge lengths to try to get them but it appears nobody can come up with a busines…

95% of Googlers in NYC will be lifetime renters just like they are in the Bay Area. Hardly the gilded class

This isn't true in the slightest, the only people who will be this way are those who are unwilling to make sacrifices in terms of quality or amount of space within a certain location, in return for the desire to own. The regional home prices in the bay area are more than twice what they are in the greater NYC region.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#52

Post by taurath »

claydavisss wrote: post #41
taurath wrote: post #4

This coupled with the Amazon news is starting to get distressing. With the amount of companies that copycat them it’s like the rich are getting richer and the economic benefits are still going to be concentrated only in the most affluent cities. The rest of the country desperately needs real industry and good paying jobs - and will go to huge lengths to try to get them but it appears nobody can come up with a busines…

95% of Googlers in NYC will be lifetime renters just like they are in the Bay Area. Hardly the gilded class

"Googlers, hardly the gilded class" is a silly argument. SWEs can afford to buy in the Bay, and can in NYC too. $250-300k is enough to afford a $1.5m place.

Yes, many Google employees aren't engineers, and not everyone working there gets paid like one.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#53

Post by claydavisss »

vikinghckr wrote: post #44
claydavisss wrote: post #33

Counterpoint: these jobs are increasingly meh and will not be impactful on the local economy. Lifetime comp (salary + retirement benefits) for Amazonians in Crystal City will probably be less than for comparable Federal workers. Google is like any other white collar business now - a small cadre of well paid execs surrounded by an army of people just doing ok. 80% of Googlers in NYC will probably have lower lifetime e…

> 80% of Googlers in NYC will probably have lower lifetime earnings than firefighters or cops once you factor in pensions No way. How much do you think Google entry level fresh graduate engineers earn in total compensation?

You will probably be retired for thirty years. Public employees are getting paid for those years, techies aren't.

I have a relative who is retired CHP. $200k a year total retirement benefits. Show me a rank and file Googler who has that lined up.

Typical techie trajectory will be maximum salary around age forty and then increasing irrelevance

As I tell everyone in tech now - imagine 64. It's coming.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#55

Post by vonmoltke »

zjaffee wrote: post #49
latencyloser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I have the opposite opinion. I took a pay cut to leave Seattle ( I lived in Chicago before that, I've lived in dense metro areas for many, many years now) so I could go live in a smaller town. I can actually afford a house. My dog has a yard to play in. I haven't been mugged since I left! No one uses my doorstep as a bathroom. My neighbors actually come say hi to me and are invested in forming relationshi…

One thing to point out about the NYC metro area is that there is a ton of land surrounding it with reasonably priced homes in safe areas with less than a 45 minute commute by public transit, where in the Bay Area and Seattle, the waterways are far larger, and transportation options more restricted. Within huge portions of nearby suburbs, you can buy a sizable 3+ bedroom house for <400k in a town with a train stop and…

> Within huge portions of nearby suburbs, you can buy a sizable 3+ bedroom house for A train which sometimes get you there in 45 minutes, sometimes in 60 minutes, sometimes gets cancelled because of (Amtrak signal problems | disabled Amtrak equipment in the Hudson tunnel | overhead wire damage | $ PROBLEM_OF_THE_DAY).

He says while crammed in to an NJTransit train.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#56

Post by i-am-that-i-am »

wenc wrote: post #35
Bucephalus355 wrote: post #2

I wonder how much goodwill Google could have generated by locating this hub in say Orlando or Des Moines. Even if they spent 150k per engineer in relocation costs (1 time fee), it’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t make that up in terms of cheaper real estate and lower salaries. There were obviously some benefits in choosing New York City (and I realize it’s an expansion technically), but still, it’s so......unimaginati…

I was in Des Moines a couple of weeks ago to do interviews for our office there. The talent pool of people who would want to work in Des Moines is very local, and the quality is far lower than in bigger metro areas. (the distribution curve skews right) Anyone with talent there tended to want to move out of the area. We ended up postponing our hiring. Des Moines favors people that want to settle down and have a quiet,…

>Des Moines favors people that want to settle down and have a quiet, comfortable suburban life.

I'm 24, but that is definitely what appeals to me. The mere thought of working in NYC or other tech hubs is nauseating. I'd feel totally out of place culturally.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#57

Post by CydeWeys »

ArtWomb wrote: post #32

It's exciting. Google has been talking about expanding its presence forever. At least since purchasing the Chelsea Market complex. The Youtube studio is an amazing space. As is the AWS Loft downtown. Cornell Tech will have a new campus on Roosevelt Island. And Brooklyn has its New Lab / Navy Yards that is almost a tech city unto itself. It feels like there's community. And a multitude of events every day and night. W…

The nice thing about NYC in comparison to the Bay Area is that we're not afraid of building more housing here, so supply increases every year and has a dampening effect on rent increases. Also, mass transit is much better, so if you live even 30 minutes away on a subway line the rents will be much lower. If you're willing to commute an hour each way (which is still less than a lot of people who drive every day on I-101 put up with) then rents are a fraction of what they are in nice areas of Manhattan, or the Bay Area for that matter.

Though personally I don't like relying on the subway (which increasingly has problems these days), hence I live in biking distance.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#58

Post by eloff »

gonehome wrote: post #28
eloff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point. It's a tough sell to relocate someone and give them a lower salary. Who'd take that deal?

Yeah, I'm agreeing with you? My comment is that in less desirable locations people need to be paid more to be there if they don't have to be. The cost of living is not really relevant.

Sorry, I read your comment wrong. Looks like I'm missing the point.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#59

Post by pinewurst »

claydavisss wrote: post #53
vikinghckr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 80% of Googlers in NYC will probably have lower lifetime earnings than firefighters or cops once you factor in pensions No way. How much do you think Google entry level fresh graduate engineers earn in total compensation?

You will probably be retired for thirty years. Public employees are getting paid for those years, techies aren't. I have a relative who is retired CHP. $200k a year total retirement benefits. Show me a rank and file Googler who has that lined up. Typical techie trajectory will be maximum salary around age forty and then increasing irrelevance As I tell everyone in tech now - imagine 64. It's coming.

Do the likes of CHP still promise that kind of pension?

I have a relative who's retired civil service in Southern California and there was a big dropoff in plan quality after his era.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#60

Post by CydeWeys »

i-am-that-i-am wrote: post #56
wenc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Des Moines a couple of weeks ago to do interviews for our office there. The talent pool of people who would want to work in Des Moines is very local, and the quality is far lower than in bigger metro areas. (the distribution curve skews right) Anyone with talent there tended to want to move out of the area. We ended up postponing our hiring. Des Moines favors people that want to settle down and have a quiet,…

>Des Moines favors people that want to settle down and have a quiet, comfortable suburban life. I'm 24, but that is definitely what appeals to me. The mere thought of working in NYC or other tech hubs is nauseating. I'd feel totally out of place culturally.

NYC is such a big city that you can find everything and everyone here. You're more likely to feel out of place culturally in a small city if you can't find your subculture there, whereas in NYC your subculture is guaranteed to exist. How many hacker groups, meetups, and conventions does random small city have, for example? Or gaming? Or anime? Or comics? We've got all that in spades.
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