Google Plans Large New York City Expansion • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#11

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:52 AM UTC

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #2

I wonder how much goodwill Google could have generated by locating this hub in say Orlando or Des Moines. Even if they spent 150k per engineer in relocation costs (1 time fee), it’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t make that up in terms of cheaper real estate and lower salaries. There were obviously some benefits in choosing New York City (and I realize it’s an expansion technically), but still, it’s so......unimaginati…

Not many people want to work in those places though. And I say this as an engineer at Google living and working in Manhattan. NYC has a huge draw to it that most other places don't. Good luck attracting top talent to Des Moines or Orlando. Way more would rather work in NYC. You don't want to be in a one-company town either; if you left Google in Orlando, where else could you work without moving? There's no credible competition at the same tier.

Network effects are real.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#12

Post by jdavis703 » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:52 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #4

This coupled with the Amazon news is starting to get distressing. With the amount of companies that copycat them it’s like the rich are getting richer and the economic benefits are still going to be concentrated only in the most affluent cities. The rest of the country desperately needs real industry and good paying jobs - and will go to huge lengths to try to get them but it appears nobody can come up with a busines…

There's another option: just build new housing in the cities that have a proven track-record of economic dynamism. There are several factors that I believe these "winner take all" cities have that many smaller cities either can't or refuse to implement. This includes not just a tolerating, but welcoming immigrants; robust public transit investment; and a great education system.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#13

Post by vikinghckr » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:52 AM UTC

romed wrote: post #7

vikinghckr wrote: post #3

If it's going to make NYC a major engineering hub, on a similar scale as Mountain View, then it's a huge deal. If it's going to be mainly non-technical roles, then meh.

NYC is already an engineering office on a large scale. There are major services single-homed there with elite engineers and no competition from MTV.

Ah OK, I wasn't aware. In terms of purely engineering talent, how would you rank Google's Mountain View, Seattle, NYC and London offices?

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#14

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:54 AM UTC

romed wrote: post #7

vikinghckr wrote: post #3

If it's going to make NYC a major engineering hub, on a similar scale as Mountain View, then it's a huge deal. If it's going to be mainly non-technical roles, then meh.

NYC is already an engineering office on a large scale. There are major services single-homed there with elite engineers and no competition from MTV.

My entire engineering team is in the NYC office. We've made some front page headlines on HN. https://registry.google for more info.

And we're very small compared to the Search, Cloud, ads, Maps, etc. engineering presences.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#15

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:55 AM UTC

vikinghckr wrote: post #13

romed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC is already an engineering office on a large scale. There are major services single-homed there with elite engineers and no competition from MTV.

Ah OK, I wasn't aware. In terms of purely engineering talent, how would you rank Google's Mountain View, Seattle, NYC and London offices?

NYC is #2 worldwide by engineering size, ahead of Seattle, London, and SF.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#16

Post by umeshunni » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:56 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #4

This coupled with the Amazon news is starting to get distressing. With the amount of companies that copycat them it’s like the rich are getting richer and the economic benefits are still going to be concentrated only in the most affluent cities. The rest of the country desperately needs real industry and good paying jobs - and will go to huge lengths to try to get them but it appears nobody can come up with a busines…

It's a classic chicken and egg problem.

Companies don't want to establish new offices in cities where they cannot attract new talent or there isn't a large existing base of talent. This limits large new offices to large metro areas (5M+ people)

People don't want to relocate to cities where there aren't multiple job possibilities - you lose your job/hate it and don't want to have to relocate to find a new job or you want to move but your spouse can't find a job there because their industry isn't well represented there.

This leads to a reinforcement cycle where new jobs are created in a city, people flock there, found the next generation of companies, new jobs, more people fleeing less attractive cities and so on...

Things that can happen that could break this cycle include - new industries emerging (like tech in the 90s), poor governance, infrastructure in an area forcing companies to find alternatives (like bay area right now), new skills coming into demand and companies establishing offices to take advantage of that (e.g. Pittsburg emerging as an AI hub, Seattle for 'cloud' skills etc)

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#17

Post by forrestthewoods » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:56 AM UTC

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #2

I wonder how much goodwill Google could have generated by locating this hub in say Orlando or Des Moines. Even if they spent 150k per engineer in relocation costs (1 time fee), it’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t make that up in terms of cheaper real estate and lower salaries. There were obviously some benefits in choosing New York City (and I realize it’s an expansion technically), but still, it’s so......unimaginati…

The goal isn’t to reduce costs or move existing employees. It’s to tap a talent pool to hire new people.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#18

Post by timeseries2018 » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:57 AM UTC

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #2

I wonder how much goodwill Google could have generated by locating this hub in say Orlando or Des Moines. Even if they spent 150k per engineer in relocation costs (1 time fee), it’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t make that up in terms of cheaper real estate and lower salaries. There were obviously some benefits in choosing New York City (and I realize it’s an expansion technically), but still, it’s so......unimaginati…

If there are good, seasoned engineers in Silicon Valley that can't pass the Google interview, they sure as hell can't find very many in Orlando or Des Moines.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#19

Post by vikinghckr » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #15

vikinghckr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah OK, I wasn't aware. In terms of purely engineering talent, how would you rank Google's Mountain View, Seattle, NYC and London offices?

NYC is #2 worldwide by engineering size, ahead of Seattle, London, and SF.

Thanks. This news is a pretty big deal then.

Re: Google Plans Large New York City Expansion

#20

Post by latencyloser » Thu, Nov 08, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #9

dragonwriter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if they spent 150k per engineer in relocation costs (1 time fee), it’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t make that up in terms of cheaper real estate and lower salaries. Are you suggest that elite talent wants lower salaries in the Midwest or Florida as long as they can get a one time relocation payout? Google might save support staff salaries, but I don't think they'll save engineer salaries with your plan, they…

You'd definitely have to boost them. I feel like it's always grossly understated in these sorts of threads just how much better quality of life is in a dense city like NYC. Access to culture, to food, to public transportation, to other job opportunities is hard to put a dollar amount on. There's a reason so many people moves to places like NYC and not isolated towns in the midwest.

Personally, I have the opposite opinion. I took a pay cut to leave Seattle ( I lived in Chicago before that, I've lived in dense metro areas for many, many years now) so I could go live in a smaller town.

I can actually afford a house. My dog has a yard to play in. I haven't been mugged since I left! No one uses my doorstep as a bathroom. My neighbors actually come say hi to me and are invested in forming relationships knowing I won't just up in move in the next year due to housing costs. We have decent enough restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, pool halls, movie theater, mall, etc, and if I really want to, I am within driving distance of the city (edit: for a day trip, no way in hell would it work for me as a commute). Yet, I haven't been back since I left.

I think it's more nuanced than your comment indicates. You might be surprised how many people might take up an offer from Google to move to the boonies (I'm at least one).