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In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

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Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#31

Post by Impossible »

singingboyo wrote: post #10

From [1], which is much better and more on-point, if still short: "Opponents of the proposition argue [...] the sun wouldn’t rise until 8 a.m. during some winter months, forcing children to walk to school or buses in darkness" Maybe school shouldn't start so early then? Starting at 8:30-9 would reduce a lot of that, though not all of it. Also, as a Canadian and Vancouverite... so what? Darkness is a fact of life, get…

Overall it would be better for the students and it fixes safety concerns, which I agree is a weak argument but 'for the children' is always a great political card to play. The issue is I don't think making the school day start later will ever get support from teachers, so it won't be considered for most school districts even if its better for the students.

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#32

Post by Taniwha »

philwelch wrote: post #13
taylodl wrote: post #11

So when the US East Coast springs forward 1 hour California is then going to be 4 hours behind? That's gonna make West Coast travel even worse.

The opposite. California is going to UTC-7 year-round. The East Coast varies between UTC-5 and UTC-4. California is effectively going to be in the exact same time zone as Arizona, which is in Mountain Standard Time and does not recognize DST. Honestly, we should just abolish the Pacific time zone and then abolish DST on the West Coast. Rename Mountain Standard Time to Western Standard Time.

the obvious follow on from that is to abolish timezones all together, all use UTS, and simply change the times we go to work to match local conditions

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#33

Post by dnbgfher »

downrightmike wrote: post #14
singingboyo wrote: post #10

From [1], which is much better and more on-point, if still short: "Opponents of the proposition argue [...] the sun wouldn’t rise until 8 a.m. during some winter months, forcing children to walk to school or buses in darkness" Maybe school shouldn't start so early then? Starting at 8:30-9 would reduce a lot of that, though not all of it. Also, as a Canadian and Vancouverite... so what? Darkness is a fact of life, get…

Arizona has not been doing daylight savings for years, and they don't have this problem. Really any area with 350+ days of sun shine a year should abandon DLS.

The difference is some people are talking about DST year-round (again). Arizona is never on DST.

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#34

Post by contravariant »

singingboyo wrote: post #10

From [1], which is much better and more on-point, if still short: "Opponents of the proposition argue [...] the sun wouldn’t rise until 8 a.m. during some winter months, forcing children to walk to school or buses in darkness" Maybe school shouldn't start so early then? Starting at 8:30-9 would reduce a lot of that, though not all of it. Also, as a Canadian and Vancouverite... so what? Darkness is a fact of life, get…

Well sure, but maybe instead of changing the schedule of all schools in the state (which would in turn affect the schedules of parents etc.) it would be easier to just not change the clock?

Using the statement 'well maybe school shouldn't start so early then' as an argument in favour of making schools start earlier seems rather contradictory.

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#35

Post by newnewpdro »

The real problem with the time change is it happens over a single night.

When you're actually living in nature, waking up with the sunrise, you will gradually wake up earlier or later as the seasons shift.

If our time changed gradually on a more natural pace it would be a whole lot less disruptive and people wouldn't be losing daylight from their lives. We have the technology today to make that happen. If everyone's clocks are computerized and sycnhronized, we wouldn't even notice as minutes are quietly added/removed by the system across many days.

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#36

Post by bitwize »

singingboyo wrote: post #10

From [1], which is much better and more on-point, if still short: "Opponents of the proposition argue [...] the sun wouldn’t rise until 8 a.m. during some winter months, forcing children to walk to school or buses in darkness" Maybe school shouldn't start so early then? Starting at 8:30-9 would reduce a lot of that, though not all of it. Also, as a Canadian and Vancouverite... so what? Darkness is a fact of life, get…

The Japanese don't have DST, despite Japan having a similar latitude span to the lower 48. Somehow, even the kids in northerly Hokkaido manage just fine.

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#37

Post by _kst_ »

Proposition 7 doesn't immediately change anything. It authorizes the state legislature to change the DST rules if authorized by federal law.

Reading the text of the revised law, it does seem to emphasize the possibility of going to year-round DST as opposed to year-round Standard Time (which is what I would prefer).

One thing I'm not clear about is how the state legislature didn't already have this authority. Prop 7 doesn't change the state constitution, just the state Government Code.

https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2018/general/pdf/topl.pdf#prop7

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#38

Post by aidenn0 »

bitwize wrote: post #36
singingboyo wrote: post #10

From [1], which is much better and more on-point, if still short: "Opponents of the proposition argue [...] the sun wouldn’t rise until 8 a.m. during some winter months, forcing children to walk to school or buses in darkness" Maybe school shouldn't start so early then? Starting at 8:30-9 would reduce a lot of that, though not all of it. Also, as a Canadian and Vancouverite... so what? Darkness is a fact of life, get…

The Japanese don't have DST, despite Japan having a similar latitude span to the lower 48. Somehow, even the kids in northerly Hokkaido manage just fine.

But the Japanese allow 5 year old kids to walk to school by themselves! They clearly don't love their kids!

Re: In Tuesday's Vote, California Opts for Year-Round Daylight Saving

#39

Post by Spooky23 »

fatnoah wrote: post #27
jandrese wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local TV news used to run the same story every DST change. Like walking to school in the dark is worse than walking home from school in the dark? The only advantage of the former is that it gives the sun a chance to warm up the air a bit more so it's not quite as cold in the morning.

Not sure where you are, but where I'm from (Northeast US) the walk to and from school were usually in daylight hours, unless one happened to be 1-2 hours early or late.

It all depends. Usually schools stagger arrival times to maximize bus trips, especially in urban areas where desegregation or integration with public transit required suboptimal routing (from a distance POV).

My neighbors kid has a middle schooler who starts at 7:30 and a 1st grader who starts at 9:30!

Personally, I went to a rural district with an 8:05 start time. The bus picked me up at 6:40AM, and I typically didn't see daylight outside of school in December.

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