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The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

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Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#61

Post by TylerE »

jdmichal wrote: post #55
jermaustin1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the size of the round about matters. The larger it is, the more opportunity a driver has to get to an internal lane and not destroy on-ramping from other directions. Also the timidness of drivers to enter a circle kills the flow and causes a backup that takes time to clear. I hit 4 different traffic circles on my 40 mile trip home, two of them are 1 lane wide and only about 100 feet wide, the other two a…

Then there's roundabouts that look like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9775503,-82.8273026,101m/dat... Multiple two-lane entrances. An inner lane that goes all the way around but cannot exit. An outer lane that has a single break between the incoming and outgoing sides of the same road. Oh, and cherry on the sundae, it's in a tourist-heavy area, so many drivers have little-to-no familiarity with it. People blo…

At some point someone has to bite the bullet a break the people don't know how to use roundabounts so no one builds them because no one knows how to use them vicious cycle.

It's finally starting to happen, at least in some parts of the country.

Even a mediocre roundabout is far better than that bane of American suburbia, the 4 way stop.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#62

Post by burfog »

cimmanom wrote: post #56
jacobush wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cul-de-sacs decrease criminality too. If you go down a cul-de-sacs to do recon, you look out of place.

That doesn't compute for me - at least not in an urban environment. You're safest on the street where there are the most people; and criminals aren't going to try to break into a building if there's an audience. High foot traffic leads to safe cities. Cul-de-sacs discourage foot traffic.

That is a 100% urban mindset. I can't even imagine thinking that way.

Other people find urban areas terrifying because each person present increases the threat. Crowds mean pickpockets and sometimes riots. Every person must be watched, and this is incredibly stressful. It's constant preparation for a fight-or-flight response.

The non-urban mindset feels much safer with completely empty streets. The next best thing would be just cars.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#63

Post by travisjungroth »

lou1306 wrote: post #12

Since nobody has cited it yet, see Christopher's Alexander "A city is not a tree" [0] for an architect's take on "natural" vs. plannes cities. [0]: http://worrydream.com/refs/Alexander%20-%20A%20City%20Is%20N...

Wow I enjoyed this essay. I'm enthusiastic about graphs, and have spent a few dinners with my girlfriend imagining designing our perfect city. I didn't expect to run into a well-written article at the intersection of those topics.

For anyone interested, the ethos of our dream city is walkability. High density, mixed use buildings. The main "streets" are walking and biking only, with limited roads for service vehicles. Public parking and transit at the city edges allow people to leave their car behind when visiting.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#64

Post by jimmy1 »

travisjungroth wrote: post #63
lou1306 wrote: post #12

Since nobody has cited it yet, see Christopher's Alexander "A city is not a tree" [0] for an architect's take on "natural" vs. plannes cities. [0]: http://worrydream.com/refs/Alexander%20-%20A%20City%20Is%20N...

Wow I enjoyed this essay. I'm enthusiastic about graphs, and have spent a few dinners with my girlfriend imagining designing our perfect city. I didn't expect to run into a well-written article at the intersection of those topics. For anyone interested, the ethos of our dream city is walkability. High density, mixed use buildings. The main "streets" are walking and biking only, with limited roads for service vehicles…

Your city sounds very unfriendly to people with disabilities, that are out of shape, or temporarily disabled that does not allow them to bike or walk (think having surgery on your leg, undergoing chemo, etc). I would at least have a tram, trolly or cable car, some type of green transportation that can get you from A to B quickly.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#65

Post by EliRivers »

lou1306 wrote: post #12

Since nobody has cited it yet, see Christopher's Alexander "A city is not a tree" [0] for an architect's take on "natural" vs. plannes cities. [0]: http://worrydream.com/refs/Alexander%20-%20A%20City%20Is%20N...

See also "Seeing Like a State" [0] by James Scott, which discusses a number of efforts to apply conveniences for the state upon populations, including cities in which to live, with varying degrees of success.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#66

Post by bmsleight_ »

umichguy wrote: post #25
village-idiot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a few roundabouts in my town in SoCal, small ones, and they all have stop signs.

That's kind of stupid...takes the point away from roundabouts. They're designed to keep the traffic flowing in low /medium conditions when a traffic light or stop sign would bring it to a halt otherwise. Saves on fuel etc.

Above a flow of around 3,600 pcu/hr (passenger car units) per lane, the roundabouts does not balance each direction effectively. (No gaps).

Traffic lights (signals), can help improve flow further in these situations as well as giving pedestrians a safe way to cross.

Part-time signals (only on a peak) can be very effective.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#67

Post by gowld »

burfog wrote: post #62
cimmanom wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't compute for me - at least not in an urban environment. You're safest on the street where there are the most people; and criminals aren't going to try to break into a building if there's an audience. High foot traffic leads to safe cities. Cul-de-sacs discourage foot traffic.

That is a 100% urban mindset. I can't even imagine thinking that way. Other people find urban areas terrifying because each person present increases the threat. Crowds mean pickpockets and sometimes riots. Every person must be watched, and this is incredibly stressful. It's constant preparation for a fight-or-flight response. The non-urban mindset feels much safer with completely empty streets. The next best thing wo…

That is a 100% male driver mindset. A female mindset on a deserted road is constant preparation for assault. A bicyclist or pedestrian on a road full of cars is in constant preparation for a collision.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#68

Post by tango24 »

jimmy1 wrote: post #64
travisjungroth wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow I enjoyed this essay. I'm enthusiastic about graphs, and have spent a few dinners with my girlfriend imagining designing our perfect city. I didn't expect to run into a well-written article at the intersection of those topics. For anyone interested, the ethos of our dream city is walkability. High density, mixed use buildings. The main "streets" are walking and biking only, with limited roads for service vehicles…

Your city sounds very unfriendly to people with disabilities, that are out of shape, or temporarily disabled that does not allow them to bike or walk (think having surgery on your leg, undergoing chemo, etc). I would at least have a tram, trolly or cable car, some type of green transportation that can get you from A to B quickly.

Perhaps there could be a subway system (complete with elevators) under, at least, the inner portion of OP's imaginary city?

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#70

Post by Tallain »

EliRivers wrote: post #65
lou1306 wrote: post #12

Since nobody has cited it yet, see Christopher's Alexander "A city is not a tree" [0] for an architect's take on "natural" vs. plannes cities. [0]: http://worrydream.com/refs/Alexander%20-%20A%20City%20Is%20N...

See also "Seeing Like a State" [0] by James Scott, which discusses a number of efforts to apply conveniences for the state upon populations, including cities in which to live, with varying degrees of success. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State

See also, also, this interesting but sometimes long-winded essay / review / examination of Seeing Like a State, and similar literature[0]. It's part of a series that goes through subjects like rationalism, narcissism, and tribal knowledge. Fair warning, it's almost the length of a novel!

https://samzdat.com/2017/05/22/man-as-a-rationalist-animal/

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