Interesting case study: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia
Jan Gehl on Brasília https://youtu.be/KL_RYm8zs28?t=1111
The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
41–50 of 122 posts
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#42Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an American, I detest roundabouts. I've never encountered one with a light before.
Why do you hate them?
No one uses turn signals on them, and you never know when, where, or if someone is going to turn. It's haphazard maneuvering. 4-way stops are far more predictable and functional.
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#44Are there any cities which are a series of concentric urban rings with parkland between them?
Moscow to some extent, and traffic is disaster. Rings are especially jam-prone.
Moscow had plans for "chordal" roads that would connect radial roads in a faster way than concentric-ring roads do. But the land allocated for these roads was all built upon in 1990s, so the traffic problem stays.
As in e.g. NYC, subway in Moscow is generally a faster commute than a car, if there's a station where you need to go. Unfortunately, Moscow subway is also concentric rings + radial lines mostly, and has the same problem of getting somewhere "diagonally" without hitting the crowded central hub stations.
Moscow is still pretty walkable, compared to many US cities, with sidewalks, crossings, etc. Though in areas built past ~1960 you have to be ready to walk for significant distances.
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#45I'm a huge fan of the winding maze like structure of cities built upon the old. It's nice to be able to wander and explore. I suppose blank slate cities (like most in America) are a lot more convenient to navigate though.
You might get a kick out of how archaeologists "discovered" the oldest street in Dublin
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Diagonals can be okay used sparingly, but roundabouts destroy traffic flow the way Americans do them (with lights).
As an American, I detest roundabouts. I've never encountered one with a light before.
Properly sited roundabouts don't need lights. Anyone who "detests" them must not live or work near busy intersections governed by stop signs only. The town I'm working in now has two roundabouts and one 4-way stop. Morning and night, the 4-way stop backs up traffic for blocks, while traffic flows through the roundabouts without issue. The city council has set aside a million dollars to change the 4-way into a roundabout this coming spring.
There are lots of stoplights that should also be replaced by roundabouts. A solid line of traffic flows right through a roundabout, and most of it is delayed by a stoplight.
The only problem with roundabouts in USA is the 30% of drivers who don't know how to use them, and stop when they see the yield sign... don't be that driver.
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#47I'm a huge fan of the winding maze like structure of cities built upon the old. It's nice to be able to wander and explore. I suppose blank slate cities (like most in America) are a lot more convenient to navigate though.
> are a lot more convenient to navigate though
It sounds indeed convenient for large cities where millions of people travel daily from one end of the city to the other. But does it matter for smaller cities (<200,000)? I have lived my whole life in "non-grid" cities in various countries and I couldn't imagine to live in a city with straight roads. Where is the fun? Finding an alley that you can use as a short cut, wandering around and discovering a nice house or garden that you cannot see from the main street, being scared as a kid of that small street where the big dog lives, etc.
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> All cities started as a blank slate. Not at all, many cities evolved from towns, that evolved from villages, that evolved settlements, etc. That slow organic growth is different from the very accelerated "add one more tile" or "do it in one go" growth. Imagine the difference between having a baby that grows into an adult, and having an adult from the get go.
At one point there was nothing where every single city now stands. Everywhere it started with a blank slate. The difference is the speed of development and, even more importantly, the level of planning. US cities grew quickly and were planned. Some modern cities that grew very quickly recently are nevertheless messy because they grew without any sort of planning. Some cities are quite old but nevertheless follow a gr…
> At one point there was nothing where every single city now stands. Everywhere it started with a blank slate.
Before the city there was a town, or a village. It's not blank slate > city, it's blank slate > something > something else > city. There's some evolution in the middle and that makes the difference. One grows organically over time and goes through different stages until it reaches the "city" stage, one is planned as a city from the start.
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#49I'm a huge fan of the winding maze like structure of cities built upon the old. It's nice to be able to wander and explore. I suppose blank slate cities (like most in America) are a lot more convenient to navigate though.
> are a lot more convenient to navigate though It sounds indeed convenient for large cities where millions of people travel daily from one end of the city to the other. But does it matter for smaller cities (<200,000)? I have lived my whole life in "non-grid" cities in various countries and I couldn't imagine to live in a city with straight roads. Where is the fun? Finding an alley that you can use as a short cut, wa…
Those exist in cities on a grid.
Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Diagonals can be okay used sparingly, but roundabouts destroy traffic flow the way Americans do them (with lights).
As an American, I detest roundabouts. I've never encountered one with a light before.
As an American, I detest how other Americans use them. Some folks in the 'ring' slam on their brakes when they see another car approach. Others will randomly pull out in front of folks who are already in the 'ring', causing the first group to always slam on their brakes when they see someone approach. This causes the second group to always pull out into the 'ring' without yielding right of way.