Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 122 posts

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#11

Post by provolone »

rayiner wrote: post #7
barry0079 wrote: post #3

I'm a huge fan of the winding maze like structure of cities built upon the old. It's nice to be able to wander and explore. I suppose blank slate cities (like most in America) are a lot more convenient to navigate though.

I’m a huge fan of grid cities. If you look at Iowa, you see a bunch of towns of 3,000 people laid out in a grid. It’s a testament to the virtue of the people.

It is nice when they throw in some diagonals and roundabouts for variety. Gives you more options when moving across the city.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#13

Post by rayiner »

provolone wrote: post #11
rayiner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a huge fan of grid cities. If you look at Iowa, you see a bunch of towns of 3,000 people laid out in a grid. It’s a testament to the virtue of the people.

It is nice when they throw in some diagonals and roundabouts for variety. Gives you more options when moving across the city.

Diagonals can be okay used sparingly, but roundabouts destroy traffic flow the way Americans do them (with lights).

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#14

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rayiner wrote: post #13
provolone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nice when they throw in some diagonals and roundabouts for variety. Gives you more options when moving across the city.

Diagonals can be okay used sparingly, but roundabouts destroy traffic flow the way Americans do them (with lights).

We don't do them that way. In my area, roundabouts are put in where traffic occasionally bursts from one direction, and where traffic levels are low. Because they quit working once traffic increases, because it can be impossible to get on if there's continuous flow from another direction.

Maybe the lights reported are because the roundabout has outlived its usefulness? A stopgap before ripping it out.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#15

Post by danaris »

rayiner wrote: post #13
provolone wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nice when they throw in some diagonals and roundabouts for variety. Gives you more options when moving across the city.

Diagonals can be okay used sparingly, but roundabouts destroy traffic flow the way Americans do them (with lights).

I've...never seen a roundabout with lights. Granted, the state I live in doesn't do them much, but I've visited places (like MA) that do them a lot, and they're all very much like European roundabouts, just with inferior signage.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#16

Post by umichguy »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diagonals can be okay used sparingly, but roundabouts destroy traffic flow the way Americans do them (with lights).

We don't do them that way. In my area, roundabouts are put in where traffic occasionally bursts from one direction, and where traffic levels are low. Because they quit working once traffic increases, because it can be impossible to get on if there's continuous flow from another direction. Maybe the lights reported are because the roundabout has outlived its usefulness? A stopgap before ripping it out.

Horses for courses....roundabouts are great for low to medium traffic conditions. Sometimes the lights are there for times of the day when the traffic is heavy. The lights go out when traffic calms down.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#17

Post by village-idiot »

danaris wrote: post #15
rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diagonals can be okay used sparingly, but roundabouts destroy traffic flow the way Americans do them (with lights).

I've...never seen a roundabout with lights. Granted, the state I live in doesn't do them much, but I've visited places (like MA) that do them a lot, and they're all very much like European roundabouts, just with inferior signage.

We have a few roundabouts in my town in SoCal, small ones, and they all have stop signs.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#18

Post by jacobush »

eesmith wrote: post #10
vvillena wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American cities aren't optimized for navigation, they are optimized for sales. A parcel of terrain is easier to sell when it's not that different from the one alongside it. Selling a house is also easier when there's no quirky features or strange floorplans.

I think it's hard to look at a grid system and say that it's optimized for sales. US urban planning in the late 1800s and early 1900s "emphasized a grid plan, partly out of extensive reliance on foot, horse and streetcars for transportation. In such earlier urban development, alleys were included to allow for deliveries of soiled supplies, such as coal, to the rear of houses which are now heated by electricity, piped…

Cul-de-sacs decrease criminality too. If you go down a cul-de-sacs to do recon, you look out of place.

Re: The Irresistible Urge to Build Cities from Scratch

#19

Post by eesmith »

jacobush wrote: post #18
eesmith wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's hard to look at a grid system and say that it's optimized for sales. US urban planning in the late 1800s and early 1900s "emphasized a grid plan, partly out of extensive reliance on foot, horse and streetcars for transportation. In such earlier urban development, alleys were included to allow for deliveries of soiled supplies, such as coal, to the rear of houses which are now heated by electricity, piped…

Cul-de-sacs decrease criminality too. If you go down a cul-de-sacs to do recon, you look out of place.

The Wikipedia page has several paragraphs on "this disputed issue", describing both pro- and con- views. One cited paper concludes "relative affluence and the number of neighbours has a greater effect than either being on a cul-de-sac or being on a through street".
Post reply on HN