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Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#191
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if I understand your question. Do you mean the mental issues part? If so, back then we all just thought the HR posting the job was retarded. If I saw something stupid, the person was stupid. It never hurt me. Nowadays the whole imposter syndrome is becoming a bigger issue. People are becoming more and more inadequate in their own skin. It’s all just getting offended by stuff seen, no matter how small. I grew…

Just wondering why people think that being challenged is a terrible thing. Its almost like being mediocre is good and having some mental problem is better than good performance. Begs the question.. "What is society rewarding ? "

There's a definite line between "being challenged" and "You suck".

As far as I can tell, society is rewarding burning people out. The tech industry is actually MUCH better than most other industries. Check out assistant managers in most any franchise. We had an article on here(?) yesterday(?) about how everything in sales was "hustle" - even when it didn't need to be. Example after example. It's not new, but that doesn't mean it's not getting worse, and it doesn't mean we can't push back.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#192
post #170
post #107

It makes me thrilled to see that we're finally talking about data around gender issues, regardless of what that data actually says. It seems like we're finally getting over the taboo and we're mature enough to look at facts.

Maybe in a couple years we can talk about statistics suggesting inherent gender differences in academic interest without getting screamed at.

[deleted]

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#193
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience has been that people are weirded when someone talks from a non-natural perspective. I've met many women who talk naturally in a confident and assertive way, and it doesn't feel like they're forcing it, or telling themselves "I'm going to try to sound like an empowered man when I say this." It just seems to fit holistically in the situation. I personally get push back when I try to sound more confident t…

That sentence could probably use some sort of proviso. I don't mean all people, all the time and I certainly am not testing for anything. I'm just living my life and periodically run into push back over things I had no idea would get some kind of reaction when I did them. I had a corporate job for 5.25 years. My department had around 500 people in it. I routinely sat up front in large meetings, in part because I have…

Can I suggest another possible interpretation?

People tend to remember the times they're mentioned in that manner, but forget/overlook the times it happens to other people.

I can't tell you if those situations were sexist or not, but I can tell you that I'm a man, and I've had a large number of experiences that absolutely match your descriptions.

I've been told the tone of my voice was commandeering in a fairly civil meeting, I've had it remarked on about how many questions I ask, I've gotten plenty of pushback when I ask folks to do things they don't want to do.

Those things are basically a normal part of office politics. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that your interaction there sounds fairly unremarkable to me, and likely stuck with you because it was about you.

Just like the offhand remark about being commandeering didn't matter to anyone else, but I sure as hell remembered it.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#194
post #70
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers look for these degrees because in their experience this is a somewhat meaningful signal that let them filter applicants. But having someone at work for real for a few weeks give employers a way meaningful signal than any degrees on a resume. If your employer maintains their relationship with you, you are likely worth more than the degrees you mentioned--dont overthink it!

At some level I logically know this, and obviously if the employer didn't feel I was worth it they wouldn't hire me. Still, after dropping out, it was hard to avoid constant feelings of inferiority. Even though people obviously didn't mean it this way, I was interpreting every statement as having an implicit suffix of "and you're stupid because you dropped out". It took me years to realize that people really aren't t…

What kind of mathematics are you interested in? I do math in academia in the NYC area, feel free to email (profile).

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#195
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. "Give me ..." without even "please" just sounds rude.

Not necessarily... "What will ya have?" "Yeah give me a half pound of the turkey that's on special." Perfectly appropriate conversation. It's a transactional conversation. Pleasantry are nice but the absence of them doesn't mean one is being rude.

Subtle cultural differences, but that would still sound rude to me.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sentence could probably use some sort of proviso. I don't mean all people, all the time and I certainly am not testing for anything. I'm just living my life and periodically run into push back over things I had no idea would get some kind of reaction when I did them. I had a corporate job for 5.25 years. My department had around 500 people in it. I routinely sat up front in large meetings, in part because I have…

Can I suggest another possible interpretation? People tend to remember the times they're mentioned in that manner, but forget/overlook the times it happens to other people. I can't tell you if those situations were sexist or not, but I can tell you that I'm a man, and I've had a large number of experiences that absolutely match your descriptions. I've been told the tone of my voice was commandeering in a fairly civil…

No one else in GIS school actually remarked upon my choice of seating. I was just struck one day by the fact that most other women sat as far in the back as possible most of the time. One or two women floated around a bit, sometimes up front and sometimes in the back.

It struck me that the female VIP said something in part because it was a "Pink Collar Ghetto" department in a company with an excellent track record for diversity and inclusion. When I got the job, the department head of my department was a woman. She retired shortly after I came on board and was replaced by a man. The two second in command positions were held by one man and one woman. When the woman retired, she was replaced by another woman.

So this was the last place I expected anyone to act like there was something noteworthy about me sitting up front. It was a female majority department with lots of women managers and other women in high ranking positions and you would think this would be one place where no one would think anything at all about a woman sitting in the front. Yet, here was this VIP woman remarking on it in front of everyone.

I gave up my car while working there. My apartment was about a 7 minute drive from work. It was about an hour walk. There were about 2000 people in the building I worked in. I rarely walked for more than 10 minutes before someone offered me a ride.

This resulted in a de facto informal survey where I would make conversation with the person who had picked me up and I would talk about having two special needs sons who had never held paid jobs and blah blah blah and they would express pity for me "Oh, you poor thing, you walked to work and worked all day to support the family and now you have to go home and cook dinner." and I would go "Um, no. I will peel and chop vegetables and go in the bath. When I get out the bath, dinner will be served to me. My oldest son does the cooking and dinner has already been started." And they would dramatically change their tune, from pity to envy.

This was a Fortune 200 company for part of the time I worked there and a Fortune 500 company the entire time I worked there. It was the largest civilian (non military) employer in the city at the time I was there. When I made small talk at eateries and people asked me where I worked, just telling them the name of my employer basically got oohs and aahs. Some of my coworkers had spent years trying to qualify for a job at the company at all.

So this is a sampling of arguably some of the best, brightest and most empowered women in the world who are not outright nobility or wealthy celebrities, who just have a job. And the vast majority of them still did most or all of the "women's work" at home. The fact that I didn't was quite unexpected and often met with shock and sometimes a lot of defensiveness.

I mean, not to dismiss your point. I often find it valuable when guys on HN say "Yeah, they do that to me too." That's often been enormously helpful to me. But, given the larger context, I'm pretty confident that this specific incident -- this remark by this high ranking woman -- was an expression of broader cultural expectations and sexism.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#198
post #26

As someone with no credentials or official training, and someone who also works at a big megacorporation as an engineer, imposter syndrome hits me fairly hard, especially during interviews. It's really hard to compete with the people who actually have proof that they know what they're doing, and I'm usually interviewing for a job that has a strict requirement of a "bachelors in CS, Math or Physics, Masters preferred"…

I feel your pain. I didn’t finish college and I hold a high level director position at a firm with over 200 employees and 6 offices on the east coast. I’m not an amazing interviewer, but I am extremely creative and resourceful, which has gotten me farther than I would have imagined. The imposter syndrome is strong, but slowly getting better as I see my work changing the company for the better. I’ve made a lot of believers, but more importantly I’m becoming a believer in myself.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#199
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wondering why people think that being challenged is a terrible thing. Its almost like being mediocre is good and having some mental problem is better than good performance. Begs the question.. "What is society rewarding ? "

There's a definite line between "being challenged" and "You suck". As far as I can tell, society is rewarding burning people out. The tech industry is actually MUCH better than most other industries. Check out assistant managers in most any franchise. We had an article on here(?) yesterday(?) about how everything in sales was "hustle" - even when it didn't need to be. Example after example. It's not new, but that doe…

Yea, I read that article. That and the suffering fetish or whatever it's also called. It's all whack.

It's funny how being an entrepreneur use to mean freedom from being a cog in a machine. Now it's turned into just being all the cogs in a machine. You ditch one slavery for another.

Who's the guy who talks about a 4 hour work week? I mean, it seemed silly at first. But to be honest, I think he was the closest to getting it all correct.

Work as efficient as possible so you don't have to work too much. Enjoy your life outside of work.

Sounds like a goddamn madman lol. Enjoy life. Only work as much as you need to. Crazy person.

There's a great podcast with Jocko, of him being candid about his own life and burn out/suicide attempt due to his Phd. What essentially started the whole 4-hour thingy.

Tim Ferriss, that guy. Here's a link to that podcast. Worth a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsxydhFqXug

But as a caveat, there's nothing wrong with busting ass when you need to. There was a project I got contracted for on doing a surveillance trailer from scratch. I barely slept for 2 weeks getting parts, learning/welding, wiring and configuring a mobile surveillance system for stadiums. Got paid for the prototype and vacationed for a month, because I could. That last part is the important part. Nothing wrong with hustling or running your self into the ground, sometimes. Just not ALL the time.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#200

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

> "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!" Do people apply to these places? I don't. Ever. Not that I feel bad about myself, but I don't ever ever want to work for a manager who approves this type of job ad.

The other day I ran across "programming athlete".
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