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Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

zdnet.com

101–110 of 113 posts

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#101
post #36

Litany of failures: * Firmware protection in drives is almost uniformly broken, so that they can get code execution (through JTAG or through hacked firmware images) routinely. This is bad, but shouldn't be the end of the world, since in the drive encryption threat model you don't want to have to depend on the firmware anyways. But: * Two Crucial SSDs encrypt the drive with a key unrelated to the password ; the passwo…

> physically stolen from you and never recovered

... or taken out of service and scrapped/resold/otherwise leaves your control. Which all drives eventually will.

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#103
I am the original inventor of self-encrypting drives. My 3-4 page comment is too long so you can read it here www.privust.com/sedlies Which describes the work at RU, its partial truths, and the lying tweets that followed. Robert Thibadeau, Ph.D.

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#104
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, not so much. The problem here isn't so much with transparency as with delegating cryptography to non-cryptographers (or, for that matter, trusting that other vendors have had cryptographers review their designs). Based on the track record not only of open source cryptography but also of internal review of closed-source cryptography (that is: closed source software reviewed by the vendor that wrote it ), havin…

> delegating cryptography to non-cryptographers Well, ok, but who is a cryptographer then? How can a non-cryptographer tell who it's safe to delegate cryptography to? You can't even really complete a degree in cryptography (you can do a CS degree with a specialization in cryptography, but that doesn't mean all that much). There's no meaningful regulatory standards body there - the CISSP is a joke and is focused on pr…

Those are all good points. It's not easy.

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#105
post #97
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treating a certification of algorithm correctness as a certification of a well engineered product is a poor choice, because many security critical things in the product are not considered in the certification.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you! I got the impression that the parent comment meant that the certification itself means nothing, hence my confusion.

I mean; a crypto certification that doesn't tell you very much about the effective security of the product doesn't provide very much value though, does it? All it tells me, is that someone thought it would increase their sales enough to justify the time and money; they may not have spent time and money to generate random numbers properly, and may just use 4 all the time; they could probably still get a fips cert, because it's out of the scope of the certification.

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#106
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, yep, and yep. I've said it enough to sound like a broken record: Transparency is a dependency of trust. If you can't see how it works, then it's objectively impossible to trust it to do the right thing. This applies to everything on a computer, really. Is your browser transparent? Is your operating system transparent? What about the drivers? Device firmware? That "security" solution that unexpectedly ushered in…

It's not really about vendors being malicious. It's just that both the carrots and the sticks involved in providing secure products are weak. You can slap a "Uses 256-bit military grade encryption" sticker on your product, pull some half-arsed home-baked crap and make more money. When someone exposes you you just go "Darn, those hackers... ruining things for good everyday folk" It's an attitude problem. Most people w…

Never said it was about malice. Incompetence and negligence are just as good of reasons for someone to be untrustworthy :)

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#107
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hw drives absolutely perform better if you have a raid.

Is there a source for that? XTS-AES was actually slower with some of the drives, block chaining for raid is done on the raid logical blocks I don’t see how HW would be faster, in fact until fairly recently HW encryption didn’t really work with raid setups at least those available to consumers.

That was my point. Software aes-Xts gets slow when you use it on a raid.

If you do use it on raid put it under the raid so make one decrypt device for each drive then raid those.

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#108
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, yep, and yep. I've said it enough to sound like a broken record: Transparency is a dependency of trust. If you can't see how it works, then it's objectively impossible to trust it to do the right thing. This applies to everything on a computer, really. Is your browser transparent? Is your operating system transparent? What about the drivers? Device firmware? That "security" solution that unexpectedly ushered in…

> Transparency is a dependency of trust. I think you go too far here. Trust is a dynamic spectrum, not binary. Transparency is one potential avenue to add trust, but is neither necessary nor sufficient in most cases. Every instance must be evaluated in light of its specific details, threat scenarios, and available tradeoffs. > If you can't see how it works, then it's objectively impossible to trust it to do the right…

You're right that transparency alone is insufficient. It's a dependency of trust, not the dependency. However, it's still absolutely necessary.

Sure, you can create your own variety of transparency by reverse-engineering something to figure out how it works (or hiring someone you trust to do so on your behalf), but if you have to resort to that, it's because you already (rightfully) don't trust the thing.

"For most people 'seeing how it works' is utterly meaningless by itself"

Well yeah, most people aren't going to be able to make sense of even a perfectly-transparent system of sufficient complexity. That's why they hire auditors to do it for them. It ain't about the user actually doing it; it's about the user being able to do it should the user have the time and technical competence to do so.

Taken another way: if you don't even have the ability to inspect a transparent thing, then what makes you think you can meaningfully inspect an opaque thing?

"closed software can perfectly well be probed anyway (as this very software and every single vulnerability ever found in proprietary software demonstrates!)"

Correction/clarification: closed source software can occasionally - and with a bit of luck and a heck of a lot more skill and time and effort - be probed for specific reasons to be untrustworthy. You're unlikely to ever reach the point where you have full understanding of the system (and if you do reach that point, then it's pretty transparent - to you at least - and therefore possible to be trustworthy, at least until the next update). Without transparency, there's always the possibility of something nasty (a fatal bug, or an overreaching telemetry "feature", or somesuch) lurking in the places yet to be probed. Sure, it's possible for those to hide in transparent (e.g. FOSS) programs, too (though I'd argue they're not being particularly transparent in those cases), but it's much easier to find that nastiness in a transparent program than an opaque program.

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#109
post #105
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you! I got the impression that the parent comment meant that the certification itself means nothing, hence my confusion.

I mean; a crypto certification that doesn't tell you very much about the effective security of the product doesn't provide very much value though, does it? All it tells me, is that someone thought it would increase their sales enough to justify the time and money; they may not have spent time and money to generate random numbers properly, and may just use 4 all the time; they could probably still get a fips cert, bec…

Pretty much, yep.

Re: Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in the encryption of solid state drives [pdf]

#110

I did not know that BitLocker relies on hardware encryption if the SSD has support for it. That seems like an extremely dangerous default to have, especially as the implementation is closed source in most (all?) cases.

Bitlocker probably uses hardware encryption if the CPU supports it, or maybe (unlikely) an encryption card. The implementation is closed-source and I don’t know if it is documented but there also is an open-source implementation:

https://github.com/Aorimn/dislocker/

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