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Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#61

Post by lowercased »

_swfb wrote: post #26

As someone with no credentials or official training, and someone who also works at a big megacorporation as an engineer, imposter syndrome hits me fairly hard, especially during interviews. It's really hard to compete with the people who actually have proof that they know what they're doing, and I'm usually interviewing for a job that has a strict requirement of a "bachelors in CS, Math or Physics, Masters preferred"…

"It's really hard to compete with the people who actually have proof that they know what they're doing"

And yet... as an independent consultant, I'm often brought in to projects worked on by these folks who "have proof that they know what they're doing". If they knew what they were doing, almost by definition, they wouldn't be calling in an outside consultant to fix broken shit.

There are often many reasons - cutting corners due to time or budget, or inheriting something that was bad and not having support to fix it, or not knowing how to fix it. But often if I'm able to talk to these folks... they didn't know what they were doing (and often didn't know they didn't know), so the result was a mess.

The "1% dude" with his CS degree probably has never had to acknowledge to a boss that they made a mistake, or are in over their head, or... haven't had to deal with their own code 5 years later and clean up their own mistakes, let alone others'.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#62

Post by rconti »

taeric wrote: post #51
rconti wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been successfully employed the valley for over a decade (and other tech work before that). I've never done a practice interview, I don't worry about my GitHub. I agree with the cargo culting comment. Work on your network. Apply for jobs that interest you. Interview. Get job.

I'd love to see numbers to show how many this is a good guideline for. That is, I think this somewhat describes me too. However, I don't know as that I can give the advice of "ignore practicing interviews."

I didn't say NOT to do it, I just think people focus too much on it. And not even the practice interview itself. I think this mindset that everyone has to have an amazing GitHub and be a rockstar 10x engineer and do tons of practice interviews in itself keeps people from applying for newer and better positions, and improving themselves on the job.

That is to say, it's a kind of meta imposter's syndrome. "I'm not even doing the right things to make myself good enough to put myself in a position to get a better job!" Which keeps people from even trying.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#63

Post by askar_yu »

wuunderbar wrote: post #57
jarjoura wrote: post #44

Of course it does, it's not a gender problem, who said it was? How many of you have heard your friends and colleagues tell you, "wow I'm so lucky I got through that interview, there's no way I would pass it if I did it again today." You shouldn't walk away from a good interview feeling like you nailed it. An interviewer should push you to your limits and the more you know, the more they should push. It doesn't mean y…

> "wow I'm so lucky I got through that interview, there's no way I would pass it if I did it again today." That's because most people wouldn't pass their interviews if you gave it to them again. Unfortunately a lot of interviews these days are passed by grinding on LeetCode (that's not to say your experience doesn't get displayed in other forms) and then forgetting about these patterns & problems after.

What makes you imply that those who grind on Leetcode then forget?

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#64

Post by beat »

ravenstine wrote: post #35
twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

There's another similar problem that I'm seeing that I don't think has been pointed out before. Recently, I've been applying for web developer positions and am coming across applications with these sorts of questions: - What's the coolest thing you've done both in life and at work? - What are your dreams? - Where do you see yourself in 10 years? I certainly do have answers for these questions, but I can't tell if the…

I don't use these questions when interviewing, but I do try to find out what really excites/motivates candidates (assuming they've survived the first ten minutes of technical, where I probably already have a no and I'm just trying to finish politely). For me, interviewing the good candidates is largely about deciding whether or not I really want to work with this person - I've already decided they're technically competent and can do the job, but I actively avoid working with assholes if I can, and I strongly prefer to work with people I think are interesting. And part of that is that they're passionate about something - a hobby, their kids, whatever.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#65

Post by commandlinefan »

jarjoura wrote: post #44

Of course it does, it's not a gender problem, who said it was? How many of you have heard your friends and colleagues tell you, "wow I'm so lucky I got through that interview, there's no way I would pass it if I did it again today." You shouldn't walk away from a good interview feeling like you nailed it. An interviewer should push you to your limits and the more you know, the more they should push. It doesn't mean y…

I've always been interviewed by multiple people - I think 12 was the high, and 4 was the low. When I do end up getting the job, I always wonder... which of them said yes and which said no?

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#66

Post by gaius »

askar_yu wrote: post #63
wuunderbar wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "wow I'm so lucky I got through that interview, there's no way I would pass it if I did it again today." That's because most people wouldn't pass their interviews if you gave it to them again. Unfortunately a lot of interviews these days are passed by grinding on LeetCode (that's not to say your experience doesn't get displayed in other forms) and then forgetting about these patterns & problems after.

What makes you imply that those who grind on Leetcode then forget ?

Because these skills are use-it-or-lose-it. They will be LRU'd out by the skills you will actually use every day. I guarantee at your next job you will not have to roll your own red-black tree from scratch...

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#67

Post by JustSomeNobody »

pmiller2 wrote: post #41
wil421 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the 1% apply to jobs with such descriptions? I’m not in the 1% in my domain and I wouldn’t touch a job with those words or phrases in the description.

I would imagine the real top 1% (if there were a good way to quantify that) never “apply” anywhere.

Yeah, I can't image someone like John Carmack having to apply anywhere.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#68

Post by corodra »

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

Saw a similar title, back in Seattle 2013 timeframe. Top 1% of ninja dev guru superstar something or other. The days when ninja was titled on EVERYTHING. So cringey. Had to have a masters in CS. I think it was 5 years of experience or something in a big tech firm only. Lots of conflicting programming languages and tech as well. Pay: $35,000 a year.

It's not hard to find relevant examples these days though. Thankfully, ninja is no longer acceptable.

Makes me imagine they literally are not looking for someone. It's got to be a scam of some sort. I heard these types are posts are put up so firms can bank off of some sort of "lack of experience" in their area tax break or something. Rumor, read on internet. I don't know. Never understood it.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#69

Post by beat »

rhizome wrote: post #59
lysium wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have the same thoughts until I did interviews myself. I don’t use these questions but I understand how other interviewers use them to get to know people. They won’t find your stuff cool (or maybe they do) or judge your cool stuff. And if they do you are at the wrong place anyways.

Is that the old "person bad at small talk judges your small talk skills" interview strategy?

Bah. I'm brilliant at small talk, which means that when I'm conversing with someone I don't know, either as interviewer or interviewee (or any other situation), I feel it's my conversational duty to make others feel comfortable and entertained, and help them along if they're uncomfortable with small talk. Good conversationalists are great listeners, because they are trying to draw interest and excitement out of other people.

It's different from being a good talker, which can be entertaining, but isn't really two-way.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#70

Post by tombert »

jknz wrote: post #36
_swfb wrote: post #26

As someone with no credentials or official training, and someone who also works at a big megacorporation as an engineer, imposter syndrome hits me fairly hard, especially during interviews. It's really hard to compete with the people who actually have proof that they know what they're doing, and I'm usually interviewing for a job that has a strict requirement of a "bachelors in CS, Math or Physics, Masters preferred"…

Employers look for these degrees because in their experience this is a somewhat meaningful signal that let them filter applicants. But having someone at work for real for a few weeks give employers a way meaningful signal than any degrees on a resume. If your employer maintains their relationship with you, you are likely worth more than the degrees you mentioned--dont overthink it!

At some level I logically know this, and obviously if the employer didn't feel I was worth it they wouldn't hire me.

Still, after dropping out, it was hard to avoid constant feelings of inferiority. Even though people obviously didn't mean it this way, I was interpreting every statement as having an implicit suffix of "and you're stupid because you dropped out". It took me years to realize that people really aren't that much of jerks, and a surprising few actually give a crap about you dropping out.

I do think that, for engineering, a year of experience is worth just as much as a year in school if you are willing to spend evenings self-teaching.

My interests tend to be a bit more academic (which don't appear to be willing to overlook a lack of a bachelors), and since there's not a single Math professor in the NYC area that will take me on as a PhD student without a degree (I think I might have emailed literally all of them), I've actually started back in school, so hopefully that'll kill the complex.

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