Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants • Hacker News Board

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#151

Post by pembrook » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

moorhosj wrote: post #136

this_user wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> France and Germany take endless steps to protect their domestic economic interests It's not even that in this case, because it's not like there are serious European competitors to these companies (except maybe the odd Samwer clone here and there) that could even be protected. This is purely an attempt to rip these companies off, because the governments can.

The flip side of this argument is that the companies are ripping the countries off by using myriad tax loopholes, because they can. I find it interesting that the companies are often portrayed as smart for doing this, but politicians are jealous and incompetent. Almost like we worship businesses and malign government. I wonder whose interests that viewpoint supports.

>but politicians are jealous and incompetent

...well they did create these tax loopholes in the first place. That’s pretty much the definition of incompetence.

So are you arguing that corporations should pay more tax than they are legally required as a gift of charity to countries? If so, how much? What if a competitor decides to pay less?

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#152

Post by smallbigfish » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #95

rusk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this reasoning I should only be taxed on income once food, fuel and housing costs are taken into account, or am I missing something? I end up paying VAT on a lot of these things as well ... I do get tax credits for some essentials but it's relatively speaking a miniscule amount. There's an interesting formula for a progressive tax regime if anybody wants to take it up ...

That's kind of the purpose of deductions; it's common for housing (particularly mortgage), education and health costs to be deductible on one's income tax, much like a business deducts its expenses to calculate profit. Taxing only your disposable income would mean that a person living in a mansion would pay much less than someone living in a small home, which is weird; arguably, the extra niceness of the house is "pr…

>it's common for housing (particularly mortgage), education and health costs to be deductible on one's income tax

Oh! What's the name of this country?

In my country all taxes are applied before you get to see the actual money.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#153

Post by discordianfish » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

I didn't follow this particular solution to taxing tech companies as much as I probably should have, but I feel like it's not addressing the root problem. Wouldn't it make more sense to tax the revenue where it was earned (as oppose to the physical location of the european HQ)?

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#154

Post by unpopular42 » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #134

friedman23 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better solution would be to implement stricter accounting standards across the EU so that such tax dodges wouldn't be possible. This would solve the actual problem.

Loophole free tax law is like bug free code: much harder than it sounds. Especially since the EU countries are actually independent and can have their own tax law.

Actually, it's not that hard. It only becomes hard when you try to use taxes to induce the set of behaviours you want. And then, completely suddenly Goodhart's law kicks in.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#155

Post by ryanmercer » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

shaki-dora wrote: post #97

0xfaded wrote: post #29

Apple and Facebook are currently building massive datacentres in Denmark, and Google has bought two plots for future datacentres. They have definitely been wooed to denmark, labour and consumer electricity prices are some of the highest in the world. https://facebook.com/OdenseDataCenter/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-denmark/apple-to-bu... https://stateofgreen.com/en/partners/state-of-green/news/goo...

I doubt that some data centers make much of a difference. Those tend to be employ maybe two cleaners, one depressed robot and one or two jaded administrators, plus their pot dealer. They also don't buy anything locally, except electricity at negotiated prices close to or below the costs of production. Maybe they lead to some earnings/profits to be at their location? Considering the issue discussed here, I doubt that.

>one depressed robot

Eh, I've always seen them more as Kryten than Marvin.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#156

Post by CuriousSkeptic » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

snidane wrote: post #145

You're never gonna implement an income based tax system which would be fair to both corporations and employees. Corporations are currently taxed on profit, while employees on 'revenues'. So to make it fair you would: 1. tax corporations on revenue too. Which this thread is about 2. tax employees on profit. Food, gas, utilities, ... - these are basically cost of operation of a human being, aren't they? Income taxes wi…

If generalize that a bit you’ve basically got geoism. An ideology that unfortunately lost steam a century ago. Would be nice with a come back though.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#157

Post by titanix2 » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

StephenAmar wrote: post #104

bsaul wrote: post #82

As a french, seing french government officials trying to impose their knee-jerk « let’s tax it » reaction to any kind of problem makes me absolutely sick. They’re just a bunch of jealous incompetent insufferable pompous politicians than don’t understand a thing about the private sector and so instead of trying to fix the numerous reason why we don’t have any competitor to google / facebook etc ( such as our best engi…

As a French, I totally support this tax. It's easier and more expedient to do it this way than to reform the taxation policies of every European countries. Also, why is it wrong to tax the income of corporations?

I support it too. Big corporations pay almost no taxes in our country; instead it is individual and small and medium entreprises that are heavily taxed. This makes it very hard to start and run a business in the long term.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#158

Post by rusk » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #96

rusk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, that the Irish rate applies Speaking as an Irish resident, I can tell you that this is effectively untrue. Indigenous businesses, or even businesses small enough to not get the sweetheart treatment of the relevant authorities definitely do not get equal treatment. The difference is vast .

Are you suggesting that indigenous and/or small businesses are taxed at a higher rate than the published standard 12.5%, or that they don't qualify for even better exemptions and thus lower effective rates than 12.5%? GP was indicating that Ireland has one of the lowest standard corporation taxes at 12.5% available to everyone, not that there aren't even better effective rates offered to larger corps & multinationals…

Yes I’m stating that as an absolute fact.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#159

Post by rusk » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

dbdjfjrjvebd wrote: post #109

rusk wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not completely true. It's a part of the picture but there's plenty more strokes going on than that.

Hence "a lot" which allows for other processes. We agree.

To me “a lot” signifies “most of” which I think understated the amount of other skullduggery going on.

Re: Three European Countries Block Tax on Tech Giants

#160

Post by pault » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #95

rusk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this reasoning I should only be taxed on income once food, fuel and housing costs are taken into account, or am I missing something? I end up paying VAT on a lot of these things as well ... I do get tax credits for some essentials but it's relatively speaking a miniscule amount. There's an interesting formula for a progressive tax regime if anybody wants to take it up ...

That's kind of the purpose of deductions; it's common for housing (particularly mortgage), education and health costs to be deductible on one's income tax, much like a business deducts its expenses to calculate profit. Taxing only your disposable income would mean that a person living in a mansion would pay much less than someone living in a small home, which is weird; arguably, the extra niceness of the house is "pr…

> Taxing only your disposable income would mean that a person living in a mansion would pay much less than someone living in a small home, which is weird;

Just as weird as a corporation with billions in revenue paying a zero or negative tax rate? Or weirder?