Live data from Hacker News

Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

troyhunt.com

261–270 of 277 posts

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#261
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Troy Hunt's whole career is basically based on the brokenness of passwords... That's unfair. Troy's career is based on the brokenness of bad password implementations , not passwords themselves.

If every implementation of an idea is bad, maybe the idea is bad

They aren't all bad.

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#262

The only password killer is a password manager. And guess what, is password protected.

Keepass can use a key file too.

I use unix pass with GPG, I know what you mean. And how the key is protected? By a password. You can stretch the chain, but at the end the point is the same.

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#263

I don't agree with the author. Passwords are difficult to remember and easy to steal. Example I saw: old people write their card's PIN code on it because they cannot remember it. Everyone knows how to use it, you say? I think that for an average, not computer-loving type of person, a hardware key is the best solution. You don't need to remember anything: just insert the key and press the button. Why aren't they popul…

When using hardware keys remember to register at least two. In case one stops working or is lost/stolen you're locked out of your account. Backup codes help but they're another barrier one have to remember.

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#264
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are trivially solvable problems. PKCE and just displaying a QR code if you open it on the wrong device makes it pretty much foolproof. e.g.: https://magic.cuvva.com/auth-callback?code=authzcode_000000B... We're oriented around mobile use cases. Admittedly less ideal if you don't have your email on your desktop. But ultimately, if all else fails, you can always log into your webmail. For me the key thing is that…

The QR-code thingy hits a friction barrier. For me needing to go to my phone is more friction than unlocking my password manager. Note that I only need to unlock my password manager once per reboot, and that for most people the password manager is already too much friction.

You'd only use the QR code thing if you were logging into an app on your phone, but had opened the email on your laptop. It wouldn't make sense in the other direction.

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#265
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the physical security posture of the location where the passwords are stored, that can be a correct statement. I wouldn't argue "usually" simply because most people aren't smart about where they're stored.

It depends on the threat vector, though. Printing out my passwords in 72-pt font and taping them to the wall is obviously insecure if I leave them up for the house cleaner to see, but there's zero risk that a remote attacker will see them (barring them taking over the webcam or something, but at that point they probably have root access anyway).

Or paying your housecleaner to take a picture and email it to them...

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#266
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the same concept of the majority of offline password managers. You are hiding all of your amazing 32 character randomly generated unique passwords behind a single memorable password. BUT its safe, because unless YOU are the target of the attack, the contents of your random slip of paper on your desk, or the password protected one note file on your dropbox, or the encrypted pwsafe3 file on your usb stick are outsi…

Did you reply to the wrong comment? Normally, to attack a password manager, you must have a copy of its database. With a deterministic password scheme, this is not required. This proves to be disastrous in practice for cryptocurrencies.

No, I'm saying writing your password down in a notebook on your desk in your locked office is nearly as safe as any offline password manager.

If you aren't the one under attack, and you still create different passwords for each service, the method of offline password storage (be it a spread sheet, a password manager, or a sticky note) are all similarly-ish safe.

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#267
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also not the complexity that’s the problem. Even if it’s flawless, which is impossible, with biometrics you can easily be coerced into giving access without effort, whereas we haven’t invented a mind reader yet. In other words I can easily imagine kids gaining access to a credit card via fingerprints or facial recognition, while their parents are sleeping ;-) I wanted to write about law enforcement agencies, but…

That new HP laptop commercial featuring the fingerprint reader makes me facepalm every time. They advertise it as "reinventing passwords" WHILE ILLUSTRATING EXACTLY HOW INSECURE IT IS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTn0r0HPXVg

That's too good to be true :-))

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#268
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now that person is forever locked in to the browser they were using at sign up time. What happens if they move from Mac → Windows or Android → iOS?

As long as they use the same browser on each of those platforms, they're good. Yes, vendor lock-in is an issue; and I hope eventually there'll be a way to sync credentials across browsers. But keep in mind that, even as things are now, it only locks you to a specific browser, not to a specific OS.

Good point—anyone using Chrome is good. I was thinking of people who are using Safari or Edge, which aren't available on other platforms.

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#269
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much the choice of email address (throwaway or not) but the fact that you physically can't log in on a machine where you can't/don't want to access your email. You can't access the link and it's too long and cumbersome to type out manually. So your only choice is to access your (personal) email on a device where you may not want/be allowed to.

I don't find that so objectionable, to log into their site you need to enter some credentials, _usually_ that checking is being offloaded from medium onto a third party you may trust more. In the case that you really need to access it where you don't wish to log into your primary email you will still need to login to something, their approach allows you to choose what sort of login security you'd like (maybe you want…

I have no objection to them offering Facebook/Google etc for those who wish to use them.

The problem is the lack of an alternative which is how this whole thread started - their approach allows you to choose between logging in via a third party, or logging into your email on the same device. It doesn't let you log into their website directly.

I wouldn't mind if they emailed you some kind of time-limited one time token you could enter on the other device, rather than using a conventional password. But all they supply is a lengthy link, which can only practically be opened on the device that has access to your email.

Re: Why [Insert Thing Here] Is Not a Password Killer

#270
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed (that sounds wrong without seeing the maths). But also missing the point. It just has to be better than the usual 8 + some punctuation at the end that most people resort to when faced with these shitty, asinine password rules.

English words are ~1.5 bits per character, random ascii garbage is ~6.5 bits per character.

It really starts to depend on the details. If there are 10,000 words and you use 5 of them, that is 1.1x more than 12 characters where you only use lowercase letters, numbers, and shifted numbers. Tweak the allowed symbols, length, and your dictionary and you can make either one look better than the other.

I think there are probably less than 10,000 words that people would choose for their password, and that people use capital letters... maybe, but don't use 12 character passwords (8 more reasonable) so it could really go either way.

Post reply on HN