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How hustle culture took over advertising

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Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#241

Post by Aperson4321 »

mcculley wrote: post #219
zamber wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm waiting for a massive exodus of US citizens to Europe for healthcare. Also the perceived society crumbling is self-imposed. Raging culture wars, terrorism as an excuse for totalitarian paranoia, freely accessible firearms, school shootings, obesity epidemic, trade tariffs, monopolistic corporations lobbying for laws, ecological disasters. Frankly, I'm happy with my European backwater if the cost of getting off we…

It's not just healthcare. I often get into discussions about our ridiculous gun situation. Often, I am told by advocates for the status quo that if I don't like it, I should leave. Maybe I will take that advice. What happens to a community when all of the people who want to improve it who have the means to emigrate give up and leave?

Middle East

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#242

Post by coryrc »

mcculley wrote: post #219
zamber wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm waiting for a massive exodus of US citizens to Europe for healthcare. Also the perceived society crumbling is self-imposed. Raging culture wars, terrorism as an excuse for totalitarian paranoia, freely accessible firearms, school shootings, obesity epidemic, trade tariffs, monopolistic corporations lobbying for laws, ecological disasters. Frankly, I'm happy with my European backwater if the cost of getting off we…

It's not just healthcare. I often get into discussions about our ridiculous gun situation. Often, I am told by advocates for the status quo that if I don't like it, I should leave. Maybe I will take that advice. What happens to a community when all of the people who want to improve it who have the means to emigrate give up and leave?

Detroit

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#243

Post by tensor »

Raphmedia wrote: post #145
nimbius wrote: post #29

As a professional diesel mechanic, I find most of the points in this article pretty difficult to understand outside the context of, say, Hollywood? or maybe iPhones? Do programmers really have to show this kind of reckless drive? This hasnt been a thing in tradecraft since...forever i dont think...and if it is, its punished pretty severely. An example: if im rebuilding the idler and pitman assembly on a fourteen ton…

The work that programmers do is not physical. Management have a hard time seeing the result of our work. What always ends up happening because of this is that managers start to manage time spent instead of value outputted. Since the work done is all very vague for them, the best programmer is the one that finish their projects the fastest . We do our own estimates and our subconscious is trying to "win" that race. So…

I've read this narrative that only the programmer cares about the quality of the work many times. I find, however, that sometimes the programmer cares more about showing off how clever they are then building a quality and simple system that is delivered in a reasonable time frame.

Hacker News has this narrative that programmers are always right and always smarter than "management" or any other non-programmer. That's not reality though. Programming isn't some special discipline where everyone is great. There are a lot of poor programmers out there like I describe above. Management often ends up not believing people because of this, just like in other professions.

Developers need to share the responsibility of the situation, it's not all just "bad managers". Developers need to start caring more about the people they build products for rather then simply their wallet and personal "fun".

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#244

Post by AznHisoka »

Regardsyjc wrote: post #131
vinceguidry wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Four Hour workweek is a dream reached either by working really really really hard to build a business, or by basically strong-arming your employer into letting you work while you're relaxing on a beach. It's all right there in his book, but like anything that inspires people, most people read what they want to read and not the actual words on the page.

I think the key lesson in the 4 hour work week and skill you need to be a successful entrepreneur or capitalist is delegation and outsourcing. You need to learn how to scale yourself and your processes by hiring others and profiting from their labor. That's the key to the 4 hour work week and capitalism. You're not going to get the crazy results everybody wants until you learn how to build, hire a team, and profit of…

Where is the capital to pay the people you hire?

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#245

Post by AznHisoka »

dceddia wrote: post #189
Celarnor wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're writing a web application, shouldnt you take care to make sure its secure and well written? Just because nobody had to pick hair out of a windshield doesnt mean a hacked webapp doesnt ruin just as many lives. No. In fact, where I work (massive multistore ecommerce), this attitude is actively discouraged. They don't want developers spending valuable time worrying about what a malicious actor would do or ho…

> In the SaaS & ecommerce landscape, being beaten to market or having a competitor that can iterate faster than you means you're dead. I understand how common this sentiment is, and maybe in some markets it really is true, but for the most part I just don't buy it that SaaS and eCommerce are zero-sum games. I'm going against the grain here, but there are a lot of counterexamples -- look at all the time tracking apps,…

Most SaaS software arent that unique. They solve the same problem other companies are trying to solve. Once you use MailChimp, you arent going to use Constant Contact too. Once you use Stripe, there isnt much reason to use Braintree, etc. Thus when a competitor gains a customer, it usually means one less customer for you.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#246

Post by esotericn »

scarejunba wrote: post #239
esotericn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. I don't believe that my train or bus would cost substantially more without the advertising. And even if it did, it's just an internalization of costs. The advertising (if it works) pulls money in through a side channel (someone sees an ad and later buys a thing). It makes far more sense to just pay for the bus. Other examples, like ads at the side of the road, don't even pay for anything. Driving along the road,…

I'd rather pay £129 for my Zone 2 pass than £135 without ads. The £6 I can buy a kebab with. Even bought the Kindle with special offers. Preferred it to the one I have without.

If it ever happens, I'll gladly pay 12 more and you can have a kebab and a pint on me. ;)

I reckon if we ever get to that point, by then the pint alone might be 12 quid though. Soz.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#247

Post by [deleted] »

sosuke wrote: post #201
sosuke wrote: post #88

To answer some of the questions as to why people do this. To try to get ahead. To try and advance. To move up. If you don't hustle, if you aren't trying to advance then how could you ever expect to move up financially? Think of it in the small scale at a fast food joint. You bus tables, sweep etc. If you do just that you can do just that forever. You can also do more to try and get promoted. You can also do less and…

To my downvote. Tell me how you get ahead without working harder than you're currently working? How do you get a raise without showing you've put in the requisite work? How do you gain the experience you need to move from junior to senior other than working harder. I'd say you could get there with time. But how do you make future possiblities happen in the present without working harder.

[deleted]

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#248

Post by bicubic »

dwaltrip wrote: post #193
rabidrat wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positione…

Society is crumbling...? I'm pretty sure the data doesn't back that up. We face many problems, to be sure, but this is nothing new.

For societies that crumble, the data is always retrospective. Organisations and societies are entities where people tend to pretend (believe, even) that everything is okay or at least everything is manageable during catastrophic events, until the day that illusion can't be maintained anymore.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#249

Post by Regardsyjc »

AznHisoka wrote: post #244
Regardsyjc wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key lesson in the 4 hour work week and skill you need to be a successful entrepreneur or capitalist is delegation and outsourcing. You need to learn how to scale yourself and your processes by hiring others and profiting from their labor. That's the key to the 4 hour work week and capitalism. You're not going to get the crazy results everybody wants until you learn how to build, hire a team, and profit of…

Where is the capital to pay the people you hire?

My partner worked as a developer to someone who served as a middle man. People would give the middle man tech projects and he'd split them up between developers he knew and profit. I think Steve Jobs actually did this when they wrote a game for Atari.

People do this all the time with 14 day invoices etc. You have to be a little creative and very skilled but it's possible to make something out of nothing because you're providing value- especially when you get paid up front with a deposit.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#250

Post by BLKNSLVR »

Nasrudith wrote: post #227
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hatred of advertising at a larger scale, nice The problem is that the perception of the advertising industry at a larger scale is that it's a blood sucking industry with no thought for anything other than taking the attention of everyone away from what they were looking for and towards what the industry has been paid to help sell. It's ironic, I think, that the advertising industry is perceived so badly. How could t…

Well their job is to please their clients above all else not the ad targets. That crops up a lot like enterprise software being infamously hated because it is geared at looking good to procurers and not the end user - and not even in an "annoying to deal with but it does the job efficiently and cheaply". If you were to say working in advertising Girl Scout Cookies in Cannabis Advocate magazines you would get fired so…

>Well their job is to please their clients above all else not the ad targets.

I find this comment fascinating, in that:

1. If more of the 'ad targets' (ie. consumers) knew this, then it wouldn't work so well.

2. The advertising industry, by keeping their clients happy, are treating the customers of their clients as a resource to be squeezed wherever and whenever possible, and the clients are obviously fine with this.

3. Point #2 results in the advertising industry being a lightning rod for angry anti-consumer sentiment, allowing the ad industry clients to remain relatively clean.

4. It would be 'good / right' if the ad-industry clients that sell the various products being shoved in our faces on most of the flat-surfaces to be found on the Internet could be held to account just as much as the ad industry itself, then the ad industry would have more reason to drag itself out of the sewer. See point #1.

Edited to add: @Nasrudith, just to clarify, your comment is a great point, and succinct. Well said.

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