Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water • Hacker News Board

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#141

Post by hnmonkey » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 2:26 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #118

atombender wrote: post #114

There was an excellent article in the NYT a couple of years ago about the fight against the PFAS industry (PFOA, etc.) [1]. The legal fight against DuPont, 3M and others has been going on for decades, and their environmental abuses have been going on since the 1950s. PFAS are scary, and they're absolutely everywhere. And every time a much-maligned pollutant such as PFOA or PFOS gets phased out or banned, a new fluoro…

Do alternatives even exist?

Yes, they themselves produce alternatives but they have the same issues generally speaking as the original chemicals. As noted above they'll usually move to the new one because they've exhausted what they can get from the original and the new one isn't tainted by regulation/lawsuits/studies yet. The EPA isn't proactive about testing these things so it then takes time for people to study them and determine that they're not healthy for people and the cycle continues.

Generally speaking though, things like teflon and such and the chemicals that make them up are probably always going to be bad for the endocrine system. I'm hopeful I'm wrong and we can find alternatives that aren't but the human body doesn't seem to do well with chemicals that make things hydrophobic/slippery/nonstick.

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#142

Post by elocinstr8t » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 2:32 AM UTC

resters wrote: post #51

It's nice to see the local officials concerned and doing something about the problem, but in many municipalities the local officials are part of the problem. I think that the mayor of every city should be required to eat a fish caught in the most polluted stream that runs through the city, and state governors should be required to eat a fish caught from the most polluted stream in the state. To wash it down, each sho…

I agree. It's nice to see some local officials do something, but a lot of them also have no idea what's really going on in their city because they consume the best products out there. Throw them in the mix with the poorest town and let's see how long they will last. Sometimes this is the only way to make them really look closely as to what's really going on in the city.

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#143

Post by justin66 » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 3:08 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #22

dmm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absence of specific dangers is not the same as safety, but the former is all that water supply testing can provide.

We test for things that are really dangerous (e. coli, arsenic, heavy metals, etc.). If microplastics were dangerous like those things, it would be pretty obvious by now.

> We test for things that are really dangerous (e. coli, arsenic, heavy metals, etc.). If microplastics were dangerous like those things, it would be pretty obvious by now.

Microplastics aren't necessarily dangerous like those things, but they've been shown to be potentially dangerous in different ways. Really acute problems of the sort you're thinking of, like long-term cancer risk and short-term infection risk, can be considered alongside reduced fertility in men and developmental problems in infants and children.

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#144

Post by RaceWon » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 3:10 AM UTC

15 years I ago I worked on the construction phase of a microchip manufacturing facility, well actually they were adding another separate plant to make gaming chips.

The computer giant that owned the land and had done so much ecological damage to the water table they had to supply the town with city water. Dead birds could be found all over the rooftops, no worms or insects were in any of the soil near the plant.

At the time I had no idea of the chemicals used to make chips but I do now, and it's TERRIFING. Here's a few off the top of my head: 100% ultra high purity Sulphuric acid, Hydrochloric Acid, Hydrofluoric Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Arsine, Arsenic, Silane gas (my personal fav, it's deadly to breathe but that won't kill you because it typically explodes when it mixes with air), and also a patented chemical that the company named J1000... but we all called it 2 step because if you got even One drop on you--you'd take 2 steps and be dead.

I worked there for just a few months... I was involved with the testing of the gasses some inert most were deadly though and could fuck you up just by touching your skin; one night I had a dream that a valve cabinet failed, and I tasted pink bubble gum--I woke up before I died in that dream. The next day I quit.

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#145

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 3:22 AM UTC

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #12

cronix wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more microplastics are showing up in drinking water because the particles are so small. They seem to be mostly coming from our clothing released during washing, which is increasingly made of synthetic materials. "The US had the highest contamination rate, at 94%, with plastic fibres found in tap water sampled at sites including Congress buildings, the US Environmental Protection Agency’s headquarters, and Tr…

People _really_ need to stop laundering synthetics. The amount of plastic and other material that sheds into our water is stunning.

I don't think I own many clothes with synthetic fabric but if it doesn't say dry clean only then of course I'm going to launder it. Why is it on consumers to become experts in every product to save the environment but there are few calls to stop manufacturers from putting products on the market that they know perfectly well are going to create more pollution?

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#146

Post by justin66 » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 3:28 AM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #76

okmokmz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If microplastics were dangerous like those things, it would be pretty obvious by now. You're right, it is pretty obvious "The chronic biological effects in marine organisms results due to accumulation of microplastics in their cells and tissues. The potential hazardous effects on humans by alternate ingestion of microparticles can cause alteration in chromosomes which lead to infertility, obesity, and cancer." https…

You say pretty obviously as dangerous and then provide quotes about "potential hazardous effects", "can cause", "potential migration", "may carry", "could possibly", etc. That's quite different than being pretty obviously as dangerous as the other things mentioned.

In my view the deeper point of okmokmz's comment is that it's just crazy to only consider the most blatantly obvious health effects of pollutants.

We're still learning a lot about the hormonal effects of consuming microplastics and plasticizers (among other things) but it's all pointing in some pretty nasty directions, and until recently we didn't have much awareness of how much of the stuff we were consuming. We have to decide how much of the stuff we're going to try and prevent from entering the environment and our water supply, and I wouldn't want the people making that determination to be informed by ideas like "well, it's not as dangerous as uranium or lead so let's just not worry about it."

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#147

Post by dbcurtis » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 3:50 AM UTC

artursapek wrote: post #16

Is this something a reverse-osmosis system can filter out at home?

RO doesn't catch everything, and are kind of a maintenance hassle. You need to be religious about changing the filters, back-flushing, etc. In the end, I decided it wasn't worth the hassle. We have a counter-top water distiller. It does 1 gallon at a time. Over the years, I've gone through 4 of these machines, I think. But I do trust the resulting water.

(I don't mean to shill, but before someone asks, I have an earlier version of this one: https://waterwise.com/product/waterwise-3200-countertop-dist... )

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#148

Post by atombender » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 4:07 AM UTC

hnmonkey wrote: post #140

atombender wrote: post #114

There was an excellent article in the NYT a couple of years ago about the fight against the PFAS industry (PFOA, etc.) [1]. The legal fight against DuPont, 3M and others has been going on for decades, and their environmental abuses have been going on since the 1950s. PFAS are scary, and they're absolutely everywhere. And every time a much-maligned pollutant such as PFOA or PFOS gets phased out or banned, a new fluoro…

I came here to post the exact same link. It was a fantastic and well researched article with tons of details and left me feeling sad at the situation but happy that there was someone who fought for helping people out. Here's another that's in a very similar vein that had some solid research behind it. It'll probably leave you in the same state the NY Times article above will but it's a must-read. I don't think enough…

I've been meaning to read that series, thanks for reminding me!

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#149

Post by hnmonkey » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 5:35 AM UTC

atombender wrote: post #148

hnmonkey wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to post the exact same link. It was a fantastic and well researched article with tons of details and left me feeling sad at the situation but happy that there was someone who fought for helping people out. Here's another that's in a very similar vein that had some solid research behind it. It'll probably leave you in the same state the NY Times article above will but it's a must-read. I don't think enough…

I've been meaning to read that series, thanks for reminding me!

It's a great read. It really goes super quickly and flows well. It's just a shame that the subject is so unfortunate. When I finished the whole series I was honestly amazed at how much I'd read through because I didn't even notice it. Almost like a thriller that you just can't put down. Enjoy!

Re: Cancer-Linked Chemicals Manufactured by 3M Are Turning Up in Drinking Water

#150

Post by adrr » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:12 AM UTC

hammock wrote: post #86

alexandercrohde wrote: post #20

"Last November, she announced that areas around the Cottage Grove plant had elevated levels of some cancers including childhood cancers , and lower fertility. And, she said in court filings, 3M was to blame." - I wonder if chemicals are the cause of the 50% drop in male sperm count in developed countries [over the last 30 years].

The answer is almost definitely yes, at least in great part. Furthermore, the top two killers in America are heart disease and cancer. 80% of heart disease is preventable by diet - avoiding foods that cause insulin resistance (sugar) and gut dysfunction (chemicals). The top cancer and many others are triggered by environmental variables (chemicals). And I know I am going to be downvoted for not citing, maybe someone…

Except for skin cancer, cancer rates have been declining.

Source: https://www.cancer.org/content/dam/cancer-org/research/cance... https://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/all.html