Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#141

Post by untog » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

jimjansen wrote: post #101

chrisco255 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ft. Worth, right next door, is not though. I don't see this happening, by the way. Abbott is up by 15-20 points in the polls this year. And Texas is just different, culturally, than these other states. You can have your LGBTQ anti-discrimination and TX still remain red, BTW. They're not mutually exclusive.

So Amazon should only be allowed to have large offices in Blue states? What dangerous thinking.

Not really, just the definition of "pro-business" is changing. It used to be that all you needed to do was slash a few taxes and you were a pro-business state. These days businesses are looking to be located in areas where their employees will feel safe and welcomed, which excludes states that fight against gay marriage, for example.

I don't really see the argument that businesses choosing location based on taxes is fine but choosing based on employee life satisfaction is a crisis.

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#142

Post by tomphoolery » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

excalibur wrote: post #11

For some reason archive.is has four versions of this article stored, all with the paywall intact. This works https://outline.com/pvJPEz

This was broken when I had content blocking on, turning it off did the trick...

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#143

Post by zjaffee » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

thebradbain wrote: post #8

I’m biased, but I’ve had a feeling in the beginning it was always going to be Dallas in some capacity: 1. DC area may have three potential cities, but Texas is the only other region that has two cities being considered 2. DFW airport is one of the US’s busiest airports, and American Airlines is headquartered there, so you can get a direct flight to anywhere in the country in 3 hours tops. Amazon already has multiple…

Many of these statements are also true of the NYC metro area where there also happen to be 2 cities being considered (NYC and Newark). The key difference is that Amazon currently employs thousands of people in both NYC/Newark and in NoVa, where the number of people in Dallas is substantially smaller.

Both NYC and DC have far better public transit and airports than Dallas. The only thing Dallas has beat over these two places is cost of living, where in both it's not too difficult to find affordable housing outside the city (something that isn't as much the case in other tech hubs).

The business environment aspect tends to matter more to smaller companies, or those building things like factories, than it does for Amazon, as they already have the resources to push through complicated government processes, and will receive substantial tax breaks to make up for the rest.

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#144

Post by the_reformation » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

All these kneejerk comments about this being phase 3 in Bezos' grand plan to defraud America's wealthiest cities- I do not understand. No cities have committed anything to Amazon and can volunteer to walk away or attempt to renegotiate if they so wish. Not much of an grand master plan.

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#145

Post by dunpeal » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #134

dmode wrote: post #56

Amazon is playing cities like chump. I had a sense in the beginning of this process that Amazon doesn’t really want to build a HQ2. They just want to open another office. Most large tech companies have large campuses across multiple cities. This exercise is no different than that. But Bezos branded it HQ2 to maximize handout. I also predict that they will end up hiring far less than the 25k projected. There is a rece…

So are the two cities going to cut their economic package in half considering they're getting half the jobs? Bet you they're not. This is unfair to cities not making the list like Detroit. If Detroit was judged on only having to provide half the jobs would it not have been disqualified? Amazon changes the rules mid-stream.

This is an internal Amazon decision that is not regulated in any way. They are not obliged to any notion of "fairness".

Amazon just put some cities on a list and negotiated with them.

Any city not on the list is not there because Amazon didn't want it there.

I also doubt that existing talent pool size was such a major consideration. Crystal City VA doesn't strike me as an obvious tech hub, nor does Newark. Amazon is definitely counting on talent to relocate to its new offices, especially if they put them in such locations.

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#146

Post by andrestan » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

xrd wrote: post #21

thebradbain wrote: post #8

I’m biased, but I’ve had a feeling in the beginning it was always going to be Dallas in some capacity: 1. DC area may have three potential cities, but Texas is the only other region that has two cities being considered 2. DFW airport is one of the US’s busiest airports, and American Airlines is headquartered there, so you can get a direct flight to anywhere in the country in 3 hours tops. Amazon already has multiple…

Can you elaborate on the Texan business environment? This is often lauded by Texas politicians. What makes it different and possible, since it obviously isn't being duplicated in other cities.

Primarily, from my understanding, it's related to diminished permitting and (most importantly) very lax zoning laws.

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#147

Post by zjaffee » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #2

I'm extremely curious what the cities who were working closely with Amazon think of this development, as now it seems that they'll be getting half the jobs for their concessions. Additionally, the reason cited for splitting their new HQ is the lack of enough tech talent, which means that their concessions may have been for naught if they didn't have enough talent for Amazon in the first place.

A lot of the economic development policies passed in the name of HQ2 offered incentives in the form of stating, if you bring x number of jobs to y location, you get z tax break (where it wouldn't just apply to amazon).

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#148

Post by monocasa » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #127

ilikehurdles wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with some of your other points... however > Texas is also building high-speed rail, which will end up linking all of their major cities, an immense bonus. Denver already has light rail connecting the airport, Boulder, and Golden as well as other metro areas, as well as amtrak, shuttles, and other public transport to the mountain regions for skiing and other recreation. It's also among the most bike-friendly c…

> Denver-Boulder's tech scene is much more vibrant than DFW's I'm not sure what this is based on. Do you mean like startups? Or general tech companies? Or large companies with significant tech presence? So much of this thread has devolved into these kinds of suppositions and city comparisons. Why do these discussions always come to this, with everyone rushing to defend one metro and demonize another? > Dallas also do…

> Do you mean like startups? Or general tech companies? Or large companies with significant tech presence?

Yes to all of the above if you consider the full Boulder/Denver metro.

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#149

Post by poulsbohemian » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

filereaper wrote: post #86

johan_larson wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think the low salaries and easy immigration would have put TO over the top.

IIRC there was some concern that HQ2 should be on American soil or withstand the backlash of the current political climate.

Big companies are funny animals in that they appear on the surface to make short-term decisions to appease the market, but behind the scenes tend to plan out a decade or more. A good fifteen or more years before Boeing moved their HQ out of the Seattle area and moved significant production elsewhere, they were putting out messages to suburban governments where they had smaller plants to not count on them being around. I would bet Amazon or any other company thinking of a move of this magnitude has a plan that stretches well beyond 2020.

Re: Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 Evenly Between Two Cities

#150

Post by dunpeal » Mon, Nov 05, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

rezashirazian wrote: post #74

dmode wrote: post #56

Amazon is playing cities like chump. I had a sense in the beginning of this process that Amazon doesn’t really want to build a HQ2. They just want to open another office. Most large tech companies have large campuses across multiple cities. This exercise is no different than that. But Bezos branded it HQ2 to maximize handout. I also predict that they will end up hiring far less than the 25k projected. There is a rece…

Trying to find cheap engineering is not a last ditch effort Amazon is going to resort to because there is a recession. They have already expanded their engineering foot print in India and have continued to look beyond the US market when it comes to talent.

Unimaginable that Amazon doesn't already do everything it absolutely can to reduce its engineering payroll, which is probably its biggest expense.

Without knowing anything about them, one would assume they're already tapping global talent pools with maximum aggression.

If anything, recession in the US may increase the supply and lower the cost (salaries) of American developers, thus making them more competitive against other countries.