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As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

science.sciencemag.org

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Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#461

Post by AngryData »

aklemm wrote: post #381
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop believing feminists when they say they want equality of outcome. They don't - they completely ignore how men die at work at ten times the rate of women, put in more hours, take more competitive roles, and generally tend to make more sacrifices in pursuit of well-paying jobs and careers. Feminists don't want equality of outcome. They want to point at the fact that women make less money as a group than men in orde…

It's fair for dangerous jobs to pay more, and I've never heard a feminist argue otherwise. The feminism I support simply asks for equal opportunity to various industries and for "care work" to be valued appropriately. Taxing people to pay for family leave is not a "concession" from society, it's more like balancing values and one that pays dividends.

Some dangerous jobs pay more. Roofing and logging are incredibly dangerous, mostly male dominated, and still pay garbage. Oh sure you take home a decent amount of money, but most that is because they work a ton of overtime.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#462

Post by sokoloff »

Ari_Ugwu wrote: post #427
sokoloff wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not at all curious about your year off (other than as incidental conversation if you choose to bring it up). I am curious about your experience and competency, both overall and in terms of recency/currency, as I believe both of those are strongly correlated to your projected contributions to my company. A pilot with 5K hours of experience is more experienced (in the pilot job market) than one with 4K. I don't car…

The point I'm trying to make is that you do seem to be making this A > B comparison without caring about the quality of those hours. Again, it seems to present the argument in a way that echoes the concerns I've heard. "A" simply starts off with an advantage in how you keep presenting it. There doesn't seem to be room in your opinion or examples for a pilot with 3k hours flying commercial vs someone with 5k hours fly…

> You don't care _how_ they spent those 5k hours...simply that they have them?

I didn’t go deep, because this isn’t an aviation forum, but sure the quality of hours matters. Retract, multi, instrument, PIC, dual given, high-performance, turbine, jet, 91, 135, 121, etc all matter. Smash-n-goes in a 172 aren’t the same as flying the line/signing for a transport jet.

Anything past the FAA ATP 1500 hour mark, the quality matters. Before that, quantity dominates for airline candidates.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#463

Post by xster »

I'm curious about the social psychological effects at play here since it's more or less presenting the same content as James Damore (first paragraph page 5) to more or less the same audience.

What made one presentation more palatable than the other.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#464

Post by ummonk »

bacon_waffle wrote: post #420
ummonk wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parental leave is not a safety net. Parenthood can be planned - it isn't some random catastrophe that befalls you for which you need an insurance safety net. Note that I do support strong parental leave policies, and advocate for such wherever I work.

> Parenthood can be planned - it isn't some random catastrophe that befalls you for which you need an insurance safety net. While you're obviously right that one can plan to become pregnant, that doesn't make unplanned pregnancies a non-issue. So, that safety net is beneficial.

Whether an unplanned pregnancy results in parenthood is a planned choice.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#465

Post by skookumchuck »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #55
skookumchuck wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> expectation is sometimes that women dont swear etc. FWIW, a woman swearing definitely lowers her attractiveness, at least to me, by quite a bit.

For another data point: I'm an American woman. I swear like a sailor. Sadly, this has failed to be man-repellent. If only! My life would be vastly simpler if my foul mouth just got me left the hell alone by men. Also, everything I have read and experienced suggests that other women are a huge source of social pressure on female behavior, possibly far more than male sexual predilections. An actress once said "I dress…

Swearing at work can also impair one's promotion. I wouldn't promote a person who couldn't keep their swearing in check. It's bad for business.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#466

Post by jaxtellerSoA »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #321
jaxtellerSoA wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. The word 'choice' is not really apposite here, given that one sex, by the mere lottery of birth, carries the burden of pregnancy Welcome to life, it isn't equal, and never will be. Maybe we should stop trying to make the playing field level and just appreciate and celebrate the differences.

'Welcome to life, it isn't equal, and never will be.' Right, that is 'life' in the sense that it is, to some partial extent - and I say partial because women regularly successfully reintegrate back into the work force, and many employers don't have your dim view of things - the existing state of things. But humans, if you had not noticed from the ideological and political revolutions of the last three-hundred years,…

>There is nothing intrinsically valuable in 'difference'

There is nothing intrinsically valuable in equality.

FTFY

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#467

Post by bacon_waffle »

ummonk wrote: post #464
bacon_waffle wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parenthood can be planned - it isn't some random catastrophe that befalls you for which you need an insurance safety net. While you're obviously right that one can plan to become pregnant, that doesn't make unplanned pregnancies a non-issue. So, that safety net is beneficial.

Whether an unplanned pregnancy results in parenthood is a planned choice.

It's not always a choice. And even where there is a choice, it's not an easy one.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#468

Post by jaxtellerSoA »

Frondo wrote: post #417
jaxtellerSoA wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. The word 'choice' is not really apposite here, given that one sex, by the mere lottery of birth, carries the burden of pregnancy Welcome to life, it isn't equal, and never will be. Maybe we should stop trying to make the playing field level and just appreciate and celebrate the differences.

We're all building a future together here, and "life isn't equal and never will be" is a dire, shitty attitude to take. You said I have fluffy unicorn ideology in another thread here, and I think that's bullshit, especially in the resource-rich 21st century. As resource-rich as we are now, the future's gonna be even brighter. If you just want to recreate the "life is unequal" structures in the 22nd century, why fucki…

You can get outraged and mad, and kick and scream all you want.

But it is completely and utterly stupid to "fight for equality". If you want to waste your time and energy, feel free. But people are born differently, some have better bone density, some have a high metabolism, some can build muscle faster. Some people are stronger, faster, smarter, etc. than others.

This makes the world INTERESTING. I am glad there is resistance. I am glad that people need to fight for a better job, or higher pay. How rewarding is it when you finally get that better job, or get the raise. How fucking proud and good do you feel when you claw your way to the top and reap the reward? You want take that away and just hand out the same rewards to everyone? Nah, sounds like a great way to have a dull life and meaningless world.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#469

Post by jaxtellerSoA »

aklemm wrote: post #457
leetcrew wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i guess it boils down to you wanting me to help pay for you to raise your child(ren) and me not wanting to. an impasse indeed. there are many more of you than there are of me, so you will likely get your way if you wait.

More like I want you to pay for your fair share of having an educated workforce available made up of a generation that are contributors and not takers.

>an educated workforce available made up of a generation that are contributors and not takers.

When this is this is the case let me know. All I see is system pumping out special snowflakes that only know how to bitch and complain and scream at the slightest amount of discomfort or offense.

Re: As women have more equal opportunity, the more their preferences differ from men

#470

Post by aklemm »

jaxtellerSoA wrote: post #469
aklemm wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like I want you to pay for your fair share of having an educated workforce available made up of a generation that are contributors and not takers.

>an educated workforce available made up of a generation that are contributors and not takers. When this is this is the case let me know. All I see is system pumping out special snowflakes that only know how to bitch and complain and scream at the slightest amount of discomfort or offense.

Look outside your bubble.
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