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How hustle culture took over advertising

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Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#141

Post by JustSomeNobody »

wnevets wrote: post #117
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

>Where does this all come from? This is an honest question. Why are people working themselves to death in the US and having this crazy mindset that doing stuff which puts you on the verge of a breakdown is good? When did this start? Americans have been convinced (largely by republicans) that the reason so many americans are struggling financially is because they're lazy and stupid. One of the side effects of this is…

Oh! I see you've been listening to Mitch McConnell! Yeah, that man HATES the poor and lower middle class.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#142

Post by jniedrauer »

phillc73 wrote: post #58
rabidrat wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positione…

> if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. Another approach is to build security through self sufficiency and community based initiatives. For example, growing your own food wherever possible, or community gardens on common land. There is a long list of examples and ideas where future security, defining that as decent quality of life, health and education, doesn't need to…

I really don't think this is viable. I grew up on a mostly self sustaining farm. I've seen how inefficient and unpredictable it is at small scale.

There are simply too many of us to revert back to an agrarian society. We have to create food at a very large scale. Which means we have to become better at sharing it.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#143

Post by edm0nd »

esotericn wrote: post #27
balthasar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employees still deserve to be respected and allowed to live normal lives outside of this corporate "hustler culture."

Why should employment be treated as a shroud? If you spend the majority of your time working to abuse your fellow man, I don't respect that, and see no reason why I should. That is not, and should not be accepted as, a "normal life". Advertising companies are a disease.

"If you spend the majority of your time working to abuse your fellow man, I don't respect that, and see no reason why I should."

Oh, please. Someone setting up a targeted Facebook or Google Ads campaign is not 'abusing their fellow man'.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#144

Post by amelius »

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

Passion, or workaholism?

Or perhaps it's because a single income isn't sufficient anymore to support a household, and people without a partner still need to pay rent/mortgage.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#145

Post by Raphmedia »

nimbius wrote: post #29

As a professional diesel mechanic, I find most of the points in this article pretty difficult to understand outside the context of, say, Hollywood? or maybe iPhones? Do programmers really have to show this kind of reckless drive? This hasnt been a thing in tradecraft since...forever i dont think...and if it is, its punished pretty severely. An example: if im rebuilding the idler and pitman assembly on a fourteen ton…

The work that programmers do is not physical. Management have a hard time seeing the result of our work.

What always ends up happening because of this is that managers start to manage time spent instead of value outputted. Since the work done is all very vague for them, the best programmer is the one that finish their projects the fastest.

We do our own estimates and our subconscious is trying to "win" that race. Sometimes, we even get bonuses based on this. So we end up stamping time estimates that would only happen in a perfect world. Management use those estimates as hard deadlines. If you do not meet the deadline, it's your fault.

So you start to work crunch time at the end of months.

Since the work is virtual, nobody but the programmer cares about the quality of the work. Management pushes you to finish as quickly as possible.

You then start to work for free one or two extra hours a day every day to fix those things in the code that bring you shame.

The things management won't give you extra time to correct. You know this glaring security hole is going to end your career, even if management doesn't want you to correct it. So you correct it anyway.

You want better tools to insure the quality of your projects but since programmers have to build their own tools from scratch, management won't grant you time to build them.

You use some time out of your weekend to build them.

Nobody wants to use a dull blade so your sharpen your tools on your own time.

A few projects done the road, you work 20 extra hours a week without even noticing anything has changed.

... now imagine a new hire trying to compete without putting any extra time. On his first meeting, he gets asked why he takes double the time to finish projects. He quickly end up doing the same as everyone else. Everyone is working for free because everyone else is.

It's a vicious circle that's very hard to break. Most of the time you only notice it when you are a new hire... and nobody listens to new hire. Heck, what management would allow the situation to get back to normal? They are getting so much free work.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#146

Post by [deleted] »

apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

[deleted]

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#147

Post by [deleted] »

edm0nd wrote: post #143
esotericn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should employment be treated as a shroud? If you spend the majority of your time working to abuse your fellow man, I don't respect that, and see no reason why I should. That is not, and should not be accepted as, a "normal life". Advertising companies are a disease.

"If you spend the majority of your time working to abuse your fellow man, I don't respect that, and see no reason why I should." Oh, please. Someone setting up a targeted Facebook or Google Ads campaign is not 'abusing their fellow man'.

[deleted]

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#148

Post by eeZah7Ux »

rabidrat wrote: post #47
apatters wrote: post #24

I'm American but I've lived overseas for nearly a decade, and I hardly ever go back. In recent years when I meet other Americans who are visiting my city, I often get this vague feeling that they're just trying too hard in one way or another. Maybe they're working too hard, or trying too hard to impress someone, or get attention, or assert themselves. I don't know if I've changed or if America is changed or if it's s…

I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positione…

This is the "appeal to worse problems" fallacy.

Given that the US is wealthier than most of Europe and yet people work much longer hours with little worker protection, people could could demand much better.

Re: How hustle culture took over advertising

#149

Post by eeZah7Ux »

mattnewton wrote: post #64
eiaoa wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think we're all increasingly aware that our society and infrastructure are crumbling, and no matter how "rich" the country as a whole is, if you haven't built up your own security through wealth, you're [going to be] fucked. And that awareness translates into people being willing to overwork themselves, so they don't lose their spot in the rat race; and corporations with money to spend on workers are well-positio…

When participating in the system of the US, wealth and job security are extremely useful. It may be rational to think “I will have more impact working to the bone and then donating/volunteering, than I would if I worked less and volunteered more”

Countless social revolutions started from people who had the time to get socially engaged e.g. students and academics.

Keeping people busy with real or artificial work is extremely common in dictatorships.

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